mark_waddy

New Member
Hi everyone!

I have a 2019 Range Rover Vogue SE (3.0 SDV6). Bought the car as an ex management vehicle from a main dealer with 13k on the clock in September 2020. After having the car for around 3k miles, the brakes began to judder.

Note at this point I do not drive erratically, I tow a little but not a lot, motorway speeds I set the cruise at 75mph, always watch traffic and never hammer the anchors (I've got other cars for that!)

The car went back to the original dealer who replaced the front discs and pads 'as an act of goodwill'. I went away happy thinking "what lovely chaps they are at JLR".

6k miles later and the whole car is shaking under braking again. Driving style not changed in those 6k miles. Called the dealer again who took the car in (while having some other warranty work done). They told me that the brakes were a consumable item and that they were unable to offer any replacement. In fairness to the dealer they did log a complaint with JLR direct whos response was that they are a consumable item and they would not be covered. The dealer offered me 20% off of the £1200 cost of replacement for the entire set. At this point I politely declined and took the vehicle to someone I actually trusted.

Now, I did not opt for a set of genuine discs and pads (half knowing we would be seeing the issue again) so went for a set of aftermarket fronts. Again, within 3k miles the judder was back! The garage took the car back in and replaced the fronts free of charge under their own warranty with their supplier (no quibbles and not the sh!t you get from the main dealer!) They fully checked the run-out on all discs (rears as well) and found that they were all as flat as a pringle!

Queue another new set of fronts and this time the rears. Four brand new discs, four sets of pads, all sliders cleaned, lubed, all faces cleaned down for perfect fit. Run-outs done on all four corners and all were absolutely spot on! Problem solved; must've been the rears underperforming and causing the fronts to over-heat.

We are now 3k miles down the line..................... guess what! They are juddering again!!!! The warranty expires next week and Landrover called to see if I was renewing. I told them (verbatim) that I wouldn't give them the steam off of my p!ss, let along £2k for a years warranty which is seemingly pointless. I do know that JLR won't look at it without genuine discs on anyway so that part is futile.

The judder is from 45mph (ish) down to about 35mph. When the car is finally slowing (down to around 10mph) the brakes seem to 'grab' on and off a little (peddle pressure not changed) The garage ran a diagnostic on the ABS sensors and they showed no fault, neither did any of the other EBD or brake system sensors.

The car is booked back into the garage this week for a further investigation.

Has anyone got any idea at all what the hell the problem could be? Something is clearly nowhere near right here and I am genuinely baffled. I am mechanically minded (have been involved in cars, engines, tractors, diggers, equipment from a young age, so know my way around with a spanner). I have had 4nr Range Rovers (3 Vogues and a Sport) and never had anything like this (actually not even with any other cars!!).

Any thoughts or previous experience greatly appreciated.
 
Unless there is a major problem, or you've excessive brake use.. brake stuck on etc.. your discs won't be warped.
More likely, you've pad deposits on your discs. This happens when you brake hard, discs and pads get very hot then you sit with your foot hard on the brake pedal while things cool.
Possibly some pads are more susceptible to this than others, did you go through the proper wearing in process?
 
I would be looking at the wheel bearings.
New front bearings/pads/discs, not cheap but if it comes back in 3k then that would be the end in my eyes.

The cheap wheel bearings on the d3 last 15k, so dont go that route, Timken are the ones I would recommend (last one I fitted has done nearly 40k) have no idea how much they are for a rr?
 
Yes, 'warping' is a term banded about, I appreciate that. Definitely not excessive or hard use and yes wearing in process each time.

It is odd that this is the 4th set that it has done it to!
 
I would be looking at the wheel bearings.
New front bearings/pads/discs, not cheap but if it comes back in 3k then that would be the end in my eyes.

The cheap wheel bearings on the d3 last 15k, so dont go that route, Timken are the ones I would recommend (last one I fitted has done nearly 40k) have no idea how much they are for a rr?
Surely it shouldn't have done a bearing within 13k miles (when the problem first occurred?) Also, all four discs have been an issue................ I'm baffled.
 
Plus 1 with regards to the wheel bearings , also would ensure the wishbone bushes are ok , then as mentioned ensure pins aren't sticking

trying to think how the hell they got the price of £1200 , :eek:, maybe it was for all new genuine discs, pads , calliper's , shoes

At least it’s easy to check the wishbone bushes , wheel bearings for any undue movement , then rechecking disc run out and after driving to go round and check ur discs to see if any of them are very hot , best to use a handheld laser temperature probe

also hope that helps a little , plus is ur engine the 3.6 please as have heard they can give rear brake issues
 
Plus 1 with regards to the wheel bearings , also would ensure the wishbone bushes are ok , then as mentioned ensure pins aren't sticking

trying to think how the hell they got the price of £1200 , :eek:, maybe it was for all new genuine discs, pads , calliper's , shoes

At least it’s easy to check the wishbone bushes , wheel bearings for any undue movement , then rechecking disc run out and after driving to go round and check ur discs to see if any of them are very hot , best to use a handheld laser temperature probe

also hope that helps a little , plus is ur engine the 3.6 please as have heard they can give rear brake issues
Wheel bearings were ok as they were checked by the garage. They will check again.

Engine is the 3.0 SDV6.

As for the £1200 price. Criminal isn't it!! TBH the money isn't a problem, the not knowing is what is baking my noodle!
 
Have you checked the existing calipers? With a caliper off, you should be able to press the piston back in with your fingers. With the caliper back on and the pistons retracted, the caliper should move easily.
If not then they need to be cleaned
 
Wheel bearings were ok as they were checked by the garage. They will check again.

Engine is the 3.0 SDV6.

As for the £1200 price. Criminal isn't it!! TBH the money isn't a problem, the not knowing is what is baking my noodle!

Thks for the info as it gives us an insight etc

indeed get them to check all the wheel bearings , plus wishbone bushes and get the calipers removed , checking piston push in freely etc , and slide pins are cleaned and greased

May i ask do u know if ur servo has had the upgraded modification please , enclosed a picture of the extra pipes , however I’m not sure if the FFRR also had the recall notice m it was to do with the servo failing and allowing oil to get past the diaphragm

ur so right , absolutely criminal what they try and charge

May i ask please is ur landy at ur home as I can tell u how to do a very basic check for ur wishbone bushes for wear without having to jack it up

hope this info and the buyers guide is useful to u

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Have you checked the existing calipers? With a caliper off, you should be able to press the piston back in with your fingers. With the caliper back on and the pistons retracted, the caliper should move easily.
If not then they need to be cleaned

apologies u already mentioned it and indeed as u rightly say regarding the pistons , have heard these can stick causing issues
 
Thks for the info as it gives us an insight etc

indeed get them to check all the wheel bearings , plus wishbone bushes and get the calipers removed , checking piston push in freely etc , and slide pins are cleaned and greased

May i ask do u know if ur servo has had the upgraded modification please , enclosed a picture of the extra pipes , however I’m not sure if the FFRR also had the recall notice m it was to do with the servo failing and allowing oil to get past the diaphragm

ur so right , absolutely criminal what they try and charge

May i ask please is ur landy at ur home as I can tell u how to do a very basic check for ur wishbone bushes for wear without having to jack it up

hope this info is useful to u

View attachment 265133
I trust the garage to carry out the checks; they are as baffled as I am!!

Servo upgrade - I have never had a recall on the vehicle; I assume JLR should have written to me if this was the case?.............

Car is at home, yes. Interested to see the wishbone check.....

Again though (and just to make prominent) the issue has occured from 13k miles so surely there shouldn't be wear on the majority of the parts?
 
Servo upgrade - I have never had a recall on the vehicle; I assume JLR should have written to me if this was the case?.............
I got a letter from Land Rover in 2018 for a recall that happened in the early 00s. Sure they'll write to you, but not necessarily quickly. You can check outstanding recalls on the DVLA website.
 
Do you feel the vehicle brakes in relation to applied pressure on the brake pedal, are the brakes perhaps harsh, or lazy?
 
Do you feel the vehicle brakes in relation to applied pressure on the brake pedal, are the brakes perhaps harsh, or lazy?
They have always felt a bit sharp and feel a bit 'grabby' when they are 'warped'. When slowing down to a halt they seem to grab on and off with the same amount of pressure applied (if that makes sense)? This could be the deposit build-up's on the discs though?

I've just driven down to one of our offices (120 miles of motorway) and they are all pretty hot (all feel about the same temperature - but without a temp gauge to check exactly it's hard to tell)
 

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