NPG said:
So according to you, where does the engine cooling circuit start and end ? And if you buy a vehicle on the condition that 'Engine and Gearbox fine, no problems', would it ever occur to you that driving that vehicle home could result in catastrophic engine failure ?

And btw, your disparaging remarks are very enlightening. Well done.
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I wouldn't consider the cooling system part of the engine at all in regards to the statement the engine is fine. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be thinking about starting/running, does it smoke or knock, does it misfire or pull ok.

Have bought and sold load of vehicles over the years, including at auctions. It is always a gamble. And yes sometimes things go wrong. If you are not happy with such potential 'risk' you buy from a dealer, as you then have enhanced buyer protection. At the end of the day we are all adults and SHOULD be responsible for our own actions, rather than trying to palm off issues as other peoples faults.

And IMO based on the age and type of vehicle (and taking a guess at the potential mileage and cost), the op would not have a valid claim in a small claims court. If the car was only 12 months old and bought from a dealer it would be a different matter. However I have no crystal ball, the only way to know for sure would be for the op to proceed with the mitigation. But I'm willing to wager it will cost them more than fixing the vehicle and will not be in their favour at the end.

If you still completely oppose this point of view, why not team up with the op and take this to a small claims court, if you are so certain you could be the financial backer. Clearly it seems it would be an open shut case for you, so zero risk. Do let us know how you get on. :)
 
NPG said:
Exactly my thought but there seemed to have been some kind of exchange between the OP and the seller once the problem was identified and also during the repairs. Who knows what went on ? To complicate matters further, I came across the same post, from what seemed to be the OP, but which refers instead to a Ducato Campervan ... which probably explains why the vehicle was being referred to as a "van" ! Here's the link -

https://www.motorhomefacts.com/threads/second-hand-van-advert-not-as-described-therefore-applicable-to-a-small-claims-case.246449
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Interesting. It seems the op has buggered off anyway and no replies from them.

I doubt this would go in their favour though as it shows they are either a lier (different vehicles) or were so unlucky they had the exact same thing with multiple vehicles..... 😂

Screenshot 2023-08-23 at 9.37.03 am.png
Screenshot 2023-08-23 at 9.37.32 am.png
 
To make an analogy, a windscreen would be considered 'good' if not cracked/chipped or bad wiper marks. The fact it's covered in crap and the wipers don't work doesn't change the fact the screen is good.
An engine is good, even if there is an ancillary coolant leak. In this scenario, if known, you might describe the heater matrix as needing attention/replacement. It (heater) would not be considered good
 
I_Danny said:
I bought the vehicle a 2007 Discovery. It was described on the advert with the statement 'Engine and Gearbox fine, no problems'. He also confirmed in person that there were no issues with the cooling system, head gasket or ancillaries to the engine. I have a copy of the advert. However after driving it home, on arrival at my property I noticed a leakage from the footwell area running under the vehicle. On looking further I found that the coolant level was low and that the leak seemed to be coming from behind the dashboard of the van. In order to get to the issue I had to remove almost al of the dashboard, the gear lever, the steering wheel and the electrical cables, as well as some of the heater pipes in the engine bay. This enabled me to remove the heater system and to therefore remove the heater matrix. This showed that the matrix was corroded and had a hole in the centre and needed replacing. I purchased a new matrix and re-fitted it into the van and re-fitted the entire dash and parts described above. During this process I documented the steps and kept in contact with the seller to ask for a partial refund as in my opinion the vehicle was not as described.

Question is does the fault contradict the sellers description of 'Engine and Gearbox fine, no problems'. He states that the matrix is not part of the engine, therefore his description is not in question. My argument is that the matrix forms part of the engine cooling system and if it is broken the engine cannot be considered as having '...no problems'

Am I correct?
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None of this matters,

It wasn't leaking when it left.. My 200TDI passed the MOT then as he backed it off the ramps the brake pipes burst on one side. Cost me £200 for him to re-do them. Far from ideal but as he says it looked ok and when its going to go it will go.
 
kermit_rr said:
To make an analogy, a windscreen would be considered 'good' if not cracked/chipped or bad wiper marks. The fact it's covered in crap and the wipers don't work doesn't change the fact the screen is good.
An engine is good, even if there is an ancillary coolant leak. In this scenario, if known, you might describe the heater matrix as needing attention/replacement. It (heater) would not be considered good
Click to expand...

They won't be back, they have been caught out as as liar
 
kermit_rr said:
To make an analogy, a windscreen would be considered 'good' if not cracked/chipped or bad wiper marks. The fact it's covered in crap and the wipers don't work doesn't change the fact the screen is good.
An engine is good, even if there is an ancillary coolant leak. In this scenario, if known, you might describe the heater matrix as needing attention/replacement. It (heater) would not be considered good
Click to expand...

Ultimately, I think it boils down to whatever interpretation you want to derive from "fine, no problems". For me, an engine that falls under this category is an engine that meets the specifications of a running engine, which includes having the ability to dissipate internal heat. Declaring an engine with a compromised cooling system as "fine, no problems" is not only unscrupulous but can have serious ramifications, not least to the buyer's bank account. As far as I'm concerned, an engine in that state is only "fine, no problems" when the vehicle is parked in the garage. One can be a used-car salesman and be economical with the truth but to declare that something is fit for purpose when it isn't - for me, we have now crossed the line.

As for another analogy, take the TD5 that has a brake system vacuum pump attached to the alternator. Although the pump has nothing to do with the engine, it is supplied with motor oil directly from the engine block. Now consider the pump is leaking oil and thus the engine is also losing oil. You bought such a vehicle on the premise that "engine fine, no problems" but on your way home, the engine is trashed for lack of oil. Would you still consider that the engine was fine, no problems ?
 
Caveat emptor.

If you go to buy a reconditioned engine you get none of the ancillaries with it.

The engine is just the sump, block, head and it's internals.
 
NPG said:
Ultimately, I think it boils down to whatever interpretation you want to derive from "fine, no problems". For me, an engine that falls under this category is an engine that meets the specifications of a running engine, which includes having the ability to dissipate internal heat. Declaring an engine with a compromised cooling system as "fine, no problems" is not only unscrupulous but can have serious ramifications, not least to the buyer's bank account. As far as I'm concerned, an engine in that state is only "fine, no problems" when the vehicle is parked in the garage. One can be a used-car salesman and be economical with the truth but to declare that something is fit for purpose when it isn't - for me, we have now crossed the line.

As for another analogy, take the TD5 that has a brake system vacuum pump attached to the alternator. Although the pump has nothing to do with the engine, it is supplied with motor oil directly from the engine block. Now consider the pump is leaking oil and thus the engine is also losing oil. You bought such a vehicle on the premise that "engine fine, no problems" but on your way home, the engine is trashed for lack of oil. Would you still consider that the engine was fine, no problems ?
Click to expand...
That's another ancillary, no different
But if you don't do your basic checks...
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I take it that by this you mean "vice caché"?

Never heard of it used on a car.

Our house, newly built for us has a terrible vice caché, we bought it on the understanding they would fit it with electrically heated floors and tiled except for one place, the master bedroom. We took the house on back in 2008.
Since then many, many of the floor tiles have developed cracks, but this happened after the garanti décenal was out. So our only redress would be a vice caché case. We have been advised it would take forever and cost us a packet even if we won.

We think the company had never laid an electrically heated floor before and that the grout used by the tilers was basically too hard. The cracks run from tile to tils as if drawn with a pencil.

Mind you the 5 dob way they lay tiles doesn't help at all. I have had to take some up in a bathroom and there are voids all over the place. How the heck is a heated floor supposed to work properly like that?

I'm too old and have too dodgy a back to deal with this! And god knows what it would cost to get decent pros in to do it. Sh!t happens. :(:(
Click to expand...
Yes I had never came across it being used for a car before but it can be used with anything if someone has tried to hid something or cover it up, I have had customers that have taken the last owner of a house to court and all have won, but getting money back can be hard
 
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