Hippo
Lord Hippo
If you apply constant firm steady pressure you will be able to turn a wheel but its not a measurable/comparable test.
kernowsvenski
Well-Known Member
How old is the recon unit?
kernowsvenski
Well-Known Member
Three tests done today. The recon unit is 4 & 1/2 years old and has done about 35k miles
Test 1 - 8kg at 1.2m - I reckon the 45 to 90 degree time is from 0:44 to 1:16 so 32s
Test 2 - 5kg at 1.2m - Looks like the 45 to 90 degree time is 0:35 to 1:18 so 43s
Test 3 - 5kg at 1.2m - Seems to be that the 45 to 90 degree time is 0:32 to 1:16 so 44s
The question is, am I doing it right? I was judging the angles as best I can with the Mk1 eyeball. Also, do I get any bonus points for continuing the tests during the pouring rain?
Test 1 - 8kg at 1.2m - I reckon the 45 to 90 degree time is from 0:44 to 1:16 so 32s
Test 2 - 5kg at 1.2m - Looks like the 45 to 90 degree time is 0:35 to 1:18 so 43s
Test 3 - 5kg at 1.2m - Seems to be that the 45 to 90 degree time is 0:32 to 1:16 so 44s
The question is, am I doing it right? I was judging the angles as best I can with the Mk1 eyeball. Also, do I get any bonus points for continuing the tests during the pouring rain?
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Looking ok to me James.
Top marks for being outside in the monsoon we had today.
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If you have a protractor or a 45 degree set square or somesuch, you can put a masking tape line on the bodywork at 45 degrees easily enough, because the top of the bumper (or the groove down the middle of the door) are both more or less parallel to the ground. Results seem fine. I did it the other week at about 8 degrees C and with 5kg at 1.2m. It was about 1m, 6 seconds, so I think mine's getting a bit tight. It's not a GKN VCU though, it seems to be some kind of aftermarket one. Does anyone know if Bell will only recondition genuine GKN ones, or will they recondition anything?
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
You should find it is a GKN, as they were the only manufacturer of the FL1 VCU, as far as I'm aware.
Thanks, It's a while since I took it off to do the bearings, but I'm sure there was something about it that looked odd. It's possible that it was a GKN one but had already been reconditioned once already?
Anyway, I donated the car to my dad yesterday, so technically, I no longer have a Freelander. Pity, I grew more fond of it than I ever thought I would!
Hippo
Lord Hippo
The 8kg at 1.2m result is a bit slow. If you lift the rear end, do both rear wheels spin freely?
kernowsvenski
Well-Known Member
Not done that but I intend to do the test again soon with properly marked out angles so I'll give it a go then. My gut feeling is that it's a smidge on the tighter side than I'd like so I'm budgeting for a call to bell engineering before winter this year.
Hippo
Lord Hippo
Yer 8kg at 1.2m figure of 32 seconds means yer vcu is well past it's best. It needs removed. That's assuming both rear wheels spin freely so not slowing down the test.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
The 5kg at 1.2m time though is not that worrying. Not perfect - but isn't 30 seconds a good time and 60 seconds the time when its thought a recon is in order?
The 5kg test is also only 2 seconds slower that a year ago (post #1194) and 16 months ago (post #1171) indicating its not degraded dramatically. However, the 8kg test is 13 and 9 seconds slower than the 8kg test 16 months ago (post #1171), so that would indicate it has degraded quite a bit. Which is true? I'd be running the 8kg test again because its difficult to get a false "good" reading, but a lot easier to get a false "bad" reading.
From tests others have performed recently...
Post #1222 gave a time of 42 seconds at 5kg and 1.2m for a new recon from Bells.
Post #1188 "I test mine every 5,000 miles, which is yearly. It's been giving 40 to 50 seconds timings every year"
There have been times of 6 & 7 minutes in between - they're definitely kernackered - as was probably their IRDs!
Hippo
Lord Hippo
The 5kg at 1.2m test isn't reliable because it doesn't apply enough force to overcome the initial momentum needed to get the vcu turning in the linear region of the graph (the straight line). Results for weight/force applied in the non linear region of the graph (the curve) are unreliable for this reason. They're also too easily offset by how the user initially applies the force, like dropping it, which speeds up the test by kick starting it.
8kg at 1.2m applies enough force to get the bar turning in the linear region on the graph, which it where the test needs to be done. You can apply weight/force greater than that but it becomes more difficult to do, the heavier the weight, as they tend to fall oft the nut.
OneWheelUpTestResultGraph 3paXgcc
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
So you've now decided that what has been the forum message for a good number of years, and what 90% of all tests are done is no longer reliable?The 5kg at 1.2m test isn't reliable because it doesn't apply enough force to overcome the initial momentum needed to get the vcu turning in the linear region of the graph (the straight line). Results for weight/force applied in the non linear region of the graph (the curve) are unreliable for this reason. They're also too easily offset by how the user initially applies the force, like dropping it, which speeds up the test by kick starting it.
8kg at 1.2m applies enough force to get the bar turning in the linear region on the graph, which it where the test needs to be done. You can apply weight/force greater than that but it becomes more difficult to do, the heavier the weight, as they tend to fall oft the nut.
OneWheelUpTestResultGraph 3paXgcc
Hippo
Lord Hippo
It's nothing new. It's something I have talked about on the forum many times over the years. If you search through my posts for words such as linear or 94Nm, you'll find it. Initially we tested using the OWUT across all weights to see what would happen. But early on we realised you need a certain amount of pressure applied during the test for the results to be comparative and reliable/accurate. The graph I posted above is from my own vcu results posted on ere years ago. There's a link in me sig below.So you've now decided that what has been the forum message for a good number of years, and what 90% of all tests are done is no longer reliable?
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
Are you not mistaking reliable for accurate - and is the 5kg test not accurate enough? We have seen many results with 5kg, and they appear reliable.
Your graph shows 8kg at 16 seconds and 5kg at 35 seconds. So the 5kg test is 218% of the 8kg test.
The tests by @dfossil in post #112 come out at ...
8kg 13s and 5Kg 30s - so 5kg is 231% of 8kg
8kg 12s 5kg 28s, so 5kg is 233% of 8kg
8kg 12s 5Kg 24s, so 5kg is 200% of 8kg
So his findings are roughly the same as your graph.
@kernowsvenski tests 16 months ago (post #1171) shows 8kg at 23 seconds and 5kg test of 41 seconds (both first thing cold and frosty). So the 5kg test is 178% of the 8kg test. They are nearer, but not earth shatteringly so.
@kernowsvenski latest tests shows 8kg at 32 seconds and 5kg test at 44 seconds. So the 5kg test is now only 137% of the 8kg test.
I agree, something is wrong here.
However - what is wrong? The 2 5kg tests both gave very similar times. They were a couple of seconds longer than the previous test, consistent with a bit of aging on the VCU, but well within "the time to replace" that gets used of 60 seconds. Only 1 8kg test is shown and it is much slower than the previous one.
Would the sensible advice therefore be that the 5kg tests indicate that the VCU is past its best but not dangerously so - however the 1 8kg test is alarming, so test again at 8kg, as it is possible that this latest test gave an erroneous result?
If the test comes back again at 32 seconds, then one has to consider whether that is OK or the 5kg "time to replace" of 60 seconds needs revising.
