OK, I think I can see what you're getting it, but I'm going to be cussed here, and play Devil's advocate for a bit...;)

Here's your graph:

3paXgcc.jpg


and I think what you're saying, is that the straight line for the overall time taken to complete the test, starts after about 8kg? Fair enough, BUT...

The time gets so much shorter, that small errors with the stopwatch have a much bigger effect on the result. I think that's the downside of using a heavier weight. So, for example, taking dfossil's 30 seconds at 5kg result, if I was even a whole second out with the stopwatch, it wouldn't really make much difference to the overall result. However, a second out on the 13s at 8kg is a much bigger percentage error. On the other hand, a false result due to a slightly binding brake, tight rear diff or propshaft bearing, etc, would have a bigger effect on the result of a 5kg test than an 8kg test. (I just like 5kg because it's a handy 5 litres of water)!

I'll try 8kg next time I see the car, and see what sort of numbers I get.

As an aside, I was tying myself in knots, trying to work out how much torque normally passes through the VCU? Obviously, running in a straight line, with correctly sized tyres, it will be next to nothing, but what's the worst case? The engine can manage 260Nm of torque. I don't know what first gear ratio is, but the 260 would be multiplied by that, as a worst case (or maybe reverse, is the worst case)? So, for example, if first is 3.5 : 1. the 260 Nm from the engine becomes 260 x 3.5 or 910 Nm. But then what happens? Is it fair to say up to half of it goes to the front wheels and half comes out of the back of the VCU? Is there another multiplication inside the IRD first? There's obviously a multiplication in each final drive too.

The reason I'm asking, is to try to get a feel for where the 95Nm peak torque from the 8kg weight sits, in relation to what the VCU might be transmitting in real life. Intuitively, I'd have thought that 94Nm (from the 8kg on the 1.2m bar) on one back wheel, will end up being divided by about 3.5 through the rear diff, so, about 27Nm going into the VCU. No idea if that's correct, though!

Clutch? Bah! Don't talk to me about clutches! My parents ended up deciding to get it fixed in Spain, rather than scrap the car, but the final bill (the garage said the DMF was cream-crackered too), ended up coming to €2000 Euros!:(
Yes, and of course there is no straight line, or else if you put enough weight on it, the test would finish before it started :rolleyes:
 
Well, that's true, of course, 8kg doesn't look like it's going to take twice as long as 16kg. I suspect it's going to be an exponential curve which will flatten-out above and parallel to the X axis. (until you break something, of course)! However, I see Hippo's point too. Even if not truly linear, it's much closer to being so at the higher weights.
 
Yes, and of course there is no straight line, or else if you put enough weight on it, the test would finish before it started :rolleyes:
Its silly contributions like this, which danage the important work origionally carried out, in order to help peeps avoid their transmission failing.

What result do you get on yours when performing the One Wheel Up Test?
 
Well, that's true, of course, 8kg doesn't look like it's going to take twice as long as 16kg. I suspect it's going to be an exponential curve which will flatten-out above and parallel to the X axis. (until you break something, of course)! However, I see Hippo's point too. Even if not truly linear, it's much closer to being so at the higher weights.
The main problem is everyone has a different opinion why the test doesn't do 'something'. Owners have the opertunity of taking precautions by using the test or not. The risk is yer transmission breaks. Not always a problem if it breaks in the right place, like the rear diff that can be removed, which puts you in 'mondo mode', after the great @mondo who first when 2wd many years ago

The line Is straight enough for what we need. I have tested up to 26kg with OWUT as well as applying it direct to a vcu on a bench test. There is still resistance, but not much.
 
Its silly contributions like this, which danage the important work origionally carried out, in order to help peeps avoid their transmission failing.

What result do you get on yours when performing the One Wheel Up Test?
Mine drops straight to the floor with a big clunk, cos the pinion gear's been extracted from me IRD.

If I stick a bar in the front prop shaft UJ, then my 1.2m bar don't move at all until there's so much weight on it that it snaps. Me VCU is well and truly kernackered.

If I ever get it back to 4WD, then I'll be happy to use the timings of a 5kg weight. Its a bit easier to set up, the test takes longer so is easier to get the timings right, there's more data available and all these tests are a guide rather than exact science - so I'd be happy with the 5kg test.
 
OK, I think I can see what you're getting it, but I'm going to be cussed here, and play Devil's advocate for a bit...;)

Here's your graph:

3paXgcc.jpg


and I think what you're saying, is that the straight line for the overall time taken to complete the test, starts after about 8kg? Fair enough, BUT...

The time gets so much shorter, that small errors with the stopwatch have a much bigger effect on the result. I think that's the downside of using a heavier weight. So, for example, taking dfossil's 30 seconds at 5kg result, if I was even a whole second out with the stopwatch, it wouldn't really make much difference to the overall result. However, a second out on the 13s at 8kg is a much bigger percentage error. On the other hand, a false result due to a slightly binding brake, tight rear diff or propshaft bearing, etc, would have a bigger effect on the result of a 5kg test than an 8kg test. (I just like 5kg because it's a handy 5 litres of water)!

I'll try 8kg next time I see the car, and see what sort of numbers I get.

As an aside, I was tying myself in knots, trying to work out how much torque normally passes through the VCU? Obviously, running in a straight line, with correctly sized tyres, it will be next to nothing, but what's the worst case? The engine can manage 260Nm of torque. I don't know what first gear ratio is, but the 260 would be multiplied by that, as a worst case (or maybe reverse, is the worst case)? So, for example, if first is 3.5 : 1. the 260 Nm from the engine becomes 260 x 3.5 or 910 Nm. But then what happens? Is it fair to say up to half of it goes to the front wheels and half comes out of the back of the VCU? Is there another multiplication inside the IRD first? There's obviously a multiplication in each final drive too.

The reason I'm asking, is to try to get a feel for where the 95Nm peak torque from the 8kg weight sits, in relation to what the VCU might be transmitting in real life. Intuitively, I'd have thought that 94Nm (from the 8kg on the 1.2m bar) on one back wheel, will end up being divided by about 3.5 through the rear diff, so, about 27Nm going into the VCU. No idea if that's correct, though!

Clutch? Bah! Don't talk to me about clutches! My parents ended up deciding to get it fixed in Spain, rather than scrap the car, but the final bill (the garage said the DMF was cream-crackered too), ended up coming to €2000 Euros!:(
The way to get precise timing is to mark the bodywork with masking tape at 45 degrees. Then film the test. Play back the video to see what the time is. Perform the test several times. Result should be consistant. A vcu which hasn't been turned, will need one full turn to mix round the fluid inside. It settles to the bottom of the vcu slowly when stationary. In use, the fluid flies out to the outer edges of the vcu due to centrafugal forces. Its not all at the edge as its reasonably full. But you appreciate what i mean. One full turn mixes it round the plates inside. Thats turning one end of the vcu while the other is stationary.

The 'force' from the engine is geared down via the gearbox and ird. The torque put through a vcu when wheels are spinning, is many hundreds of Nm. Its possible to turn a vcu multiple times per minute. If you consider what happens to a working vcu when wheels spin, it 'fights' a lot of force applied across itself. Thats untill it reaches the point of 'activation'. Think of the power escaping out of yer front tyres when they're spinning. Its huge. What we're trying to do is copy this by turning the vcu during the OWUT, to see if it does turn and at what pace. 94Nm is near the minimum force required to test if it can spin on the start of the linear line. You have to bear in mind something special happens when a vcu 'activates' in order to supply higher forces across itself to power the rear diff. We're testing to see if the magic happens or not. If not, then we should detect a 'seizing' vcu, which wont turn as fast as it should during the OWUT.

You have to bear in mind the OWUT is a compromise, setup to be usable by yer average owner at home. Peeps from all around the world link to my video's of it. Its discussed on their local forums anorl. Everyone has an opinion on it. I would like think it has saved many thousands of FL1's from early retirement.

Clutches can be expensive but at least it doesn't need doing again for many thousands of miles. Hopefully it will pay oft with use of yer Freelander in years to come.
 
Wow.

Took 2 days at work to go through 65 pages. There was fear of this mystical VCU, there was a theory, a test was developed, a call to the populous was hailed, there was a Hero with a Bell who seems to have been quietly dethroned and a LOT of TLDR - I mean screen size posts talking about 100000 fluid and delta and other high level stuff... But the DRAMA - the drama especially around page 25-32 WOW! Someone wrote "the dummies were ricocheting" - I lolled at that for a whole minute.

Anyways will be doing a OWUT this weekend using both the 5kg and 8kg as Hippo sounds like a guy who knows what he is talking about.

Glad to be here guys - I only have one meaningful post on here from last year but hoping to make another one this weekend. I had a Freelander last year - electrical gremlins - fixed it myself and sold it as got scared by all the "experts" telling me how much of a peace of poo it is but it left a void and I got another one. Sod the haters these are really reasonable cars, capable, simple and one can wrench on them themselves which is rare these days.

All the best - hope to contribute more in the time to come.
 
Glad to be here guys - I only have one meaningful post on here from last year but hoping to make another one this weekend. I had a Freelander last year - electrical gremlins - fixed it myself and sold it as got scared by all the "experts" telling me how much of a peace of poo it is but it left a void and I got another one. Sod the haters these are really reasonable cars, capable, simple and one can wrench on them themselves which is rare these days.
These are lovely cars to work on - really straightforward in the most part. Usually the most challenging part is that they are now around 20 years old - and things don't come apart like they do in a Haynes Manual. But then, when does anything come apart like it does in a Haynes manual??? LOL
 
Hi Guys,

Not sure if even relevant any more but...

Meant to do this for couple of weeks now but didn't think the VCU will be bad as car was quite light on its feet etc. Until a week ago when I got stuck in mud and had to work the car hard for 5 minutes to get myself out - airing down and all - proper stuck. After I got out the car felt tighter. Noticeably. I cleaned all the mud off but it felt tighter in lock and just seemed like it works harder to get around like when switching the RonBox from 9 to 6 there is a noticeable difference - that kind of thing.

Could the VCU get stiffer as it was worked hard? I didn't go stupid and abusive but the 4wd had to do proper work to get me out that day. Before I got the car it was a city dweller and an A road commuter so maybe the VCU didn't have to work hard for a long time and now I stirred it all up it got stiff?

Car has 127K miles and looks like it was reasonably taken care of (matching tyres etc) but service history and all books got lost in the move apparently.

My test times done today 8 degrees ambient car driven to work and stood for couple of hours before the test.
8kg on 1.2m average time 40s
5kg on 1.2m average time 1m 30s

Prop just got removed.

Car has a RonBox @ 6 and didn't feel very tight at all driving straight, returned 33mpg just poncing around town and some local fields- maybe the extra torque form the engine was hiding the drag?

Thanks for all the input here guys.
 
I agree - it sounds as though the VCU has come up to replacement time, but otherwise, I would have been thinking that the support bearings were giving up the ghost as well...
 
Hi Guys,

Not sure if even relevant any more but...

Meant to do this for couple of weeks now but didn't think the VCU will be bad as car was quite light on its feet etc. Until a week ago when I got stuck in mud and had to work the car hard for 5 minutes to get myself out - airing down and all - proper stuck. After I got out the car felt tighter. Noticeably. I cleaned all the mud off but it felt tighter in lock and just seemed like it works harder to get around like when switching the RonBox from 9 to 6 there is a noticeable difference - that kind of thing.

Could the VCU get stiffer as it was worked hard? I didn't go stupid and abusive but the 4wd had to do proper work to get me out that day. Before I got the car it was a city dweller and an A road commuter so maybe the VCU didn't have to work hard for a long time and now I stirred it all up it got stiff?

Car has 127K miles and looks like it was reasonably taken care of (matching tyres etc) but service history and all books got lost in the move apparently.

My test times done today 8 degrees ambient car driven to work and stood for couple of hours before the test.
8kg on 1.2m average time 40s
5kg on 1.2m average time 1m 30s

Prop just got removed.

Car has a RonBox @ 6 and didn't feel very tight at all driving straight, returned 33mpg just poncing around town and some local fields- maybe the extra torque form the engine was hiding the drag?

Thanks for all the input here guys.
It wont fail suddenly unless you over heat it. You won't have done that. They stiffen over time with use. Road driving still mixes the fluid round. Removing the prop is a good move. If the rear wheels spin freely when the rear end is lifted then the vcu is well past its best. Time to replace. New GKN bearings anorl. And while yer there check the front mount on the rear diff for movement.
 
Hello Guys,

Yes - prop is out. Funny enough I have been told that the bearings are new and I assumed someone checked the VCU when they were replacing them.

Bearings didn't make any noise as I can't hear the driveline being any more quiet than when the prop was in but for peace of mind the whole lot would need to be replaced. Diff mounts as well - might as well overhaul the lot.

Also as much as I need the car to be ready to go through some mud I must say that I really enjoy the "mondo mode" feeling of the car. It feels so much more "light on its feet" if you know what I mean? Occasional wheel spin coming out of a gravely side road but only slight. Can I expect the refurb VCU to feel close to like being in "mondo mode"? Being that the Freelanders were designed to give that FWD feeling is that a reasonable expectation to have?

Thank you for the feedback guy - love the car and the community around it.
 
Hello Guys,

Yes - prop is out. Funny enough I have been told that the bearings are new and I assumed someone checked the VCU when they were replacing them.

Bearings didn't make any noise as I can't hear the driveline being any more quiet than when the prop was in but for peace of mind the whole lot would need to be replaced. Diff mounts as well - might as well overhaul the lot.

Also as much as I need the car to be ready to go through some mud I must say that I really enjoy the "mondo mode" feeling of the car. It feels so much more "light on its feet" if you know what I mean? Occasional wheel spin coming out of a gravely side road but only slight. Can I expect the refurb VCU to feel close to like being in "mondo mode"? Being that the Freelanders were designed to give that FWD feeling is that a reasonable expectation to have?

Thank you for the feedback guy - love the car and the community around it.
I found Mondo mode to be very understeery so I didn't like it. It is especially bad in a 1.8 K series petrol car because of the lighter engine.
Unfortunately assuming anyone would ever replace the VCU is a mistake as most mechanics know nothing about them, hence the number of Freelanders killed by transmission failure.
With a good VCU it should feel tighter but not like it is being held back.

Time to give Bell engineering a call. ;)
 
Never tried mondo mode, but I can imagine much less transmission drag…

mine felt a little better after replacing the VCU - but mine wasn’t catastrophically bad (although the bearings were shot!)

still have bearing noise though. Sounds like it’s the front right wheel bearing…
 
Mondo alright for time being - understeer not noticeable - in fact there is a certain place I frequent where one has to almost do a hairpin turn into a junction and I have noticed that the car was pushing me towards the curb with the rear drive but that could have been a result of tight VCU. No pushing at all now.

Definitely will be putting it back to 4wd though as traction is noticeably reduced (synergy on 6) even on wet tarmac especially pulling away. Also I will miss worrying about tyre wear, vcu, bearings etc :D

Mgf mirror mod next - parts on the way.
 
MGF mirror mod is the single best mod on my FL1 so far :) It should have been like this from factory for the 3 door.
 

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