Nodge68 said:

Personally, I'd get the props and VCU off. This way you can save up without fear of causing damage and the props will be ready to assemble for refitting

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Agreed, if your at all concerned whip it off and drive Mondo mode until it is sorted. I currently have three K series so I understand paranoia.

I'll get onto it tomorrow then, thanks lads. It seems i bought the car exactly as it failed given the way all the problems unfolded. I'm glad i did the test now before losing the IRD. On the plus, others now have a reference point for a somewhat recorded failure.. 59.5s [5kg@1.2m] was just and so too late for me, that result came from a 86k mile VCU. I would speculate had i have been the owner at the time (and had changed the VCU between the 50-55s mark) i would probably be £££'s better off.

I wouldn't be so sure it has completely failed although it is definitely past it's best. Like I said, mine took 2 minutes with no obvious signs of damage to the drive train, and I've never heard of a VCU damaging a subframe.

Alibro said:

I wouldn't be so sure it has completely failed although it is definitely past it's best. Like I said, mine took 2 minutes with no obvious signs of damage to the drive train, and I've never heard of a VCU damaging a subframe.

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I hadn't heard of it until i found the problem either. It's surprisingly common. Land rover issued a bulletin over it. There are quite a few people reporting it to be tied in with VCU failure. Apparently the position of the diff in the subframe means more force goes to the off side front mount point of the subframe under heavy load. This pulls a captive nut through the chassis leg causing a split, thus creak and knock that leads to increased failure rates of the diff mounts. I'll post the bulletin at the bottom because it seems to embed.

A stiff vcu would also cause strain on the drivetrain, which would strain the subframe in the exact same way (as seemingly many people are claiming online). If 45s and under is a new/good VCU, i'm 14s slower at a 59s average. That's not really a small amount for something that is supposed to be precise. It was not smooth motion at first so it will probably spike, plus, my freebie is a bit more abused than some (which will have contributed).

I think the thing to take from this is that mine failed early on in the 'seizing process', in part due to hard use, but had the vcu not have been at fault, it probably wouldn't have happened at all. Why am i so sure? Mine is a facelift td4, which (i have just learned) has a reinforced chassis member on the OSF mount, designed to combat this 'design' problem, yet mine still broke. There must be quite a bit of strain involved to crack the reinforced version... In hindsight i am certain that i was kidding myself by passing it all off as coincidence and hoping for the best.

I guess i could be wrong, but i suspect you are fine because all else is solid on the car, so there are no weak points yet. Personally though, if my results where 2 minutes and i was getting a stiff full lock [with the luck i have] i wouldn't be sitting around. For the price of genuine diff mounts/seals [fitted] and a subframe repair it is actually cheaper to buy a GKN vcu and genuine carrier bearings (which is also an easy job to diy). I was only really hesitating on a new vcu because of the ridiculous amount of money i have already had to spend on the motor.

I guess if the car is used off road a lot there will be much more strain on the rear diff than most. Probably 95% of Freelanders spend all their time on the road so unless the VCU is knackered the strain on the rear diff etc will be minimal. The VCU is just a bunch of disks, half connected to the front prop and half to the rear with fluid in the between them. They fail very slowly over time getting progressively worse but are relatively easy to repair. The hard part is welding them back together properly so they don't leak. At least it's hard for me.
I tested mine on the day I bought her and had the propshaft off the same day to prevent issues.

Ok, replaced the VCU with one from Bell Engineering and done a quick test after the vehicle has had a 200 miles shakedown. 1.2m with 5kg hanging on it and the time for 45 deg to horizontal averaged out at about 35 sec.

The old unit at 125k took 50 seconds.

I'll keep an eye on it every 5000 miles or so.

4x4Dog said:

Ok, replaced the VCU with one from Bell Engineering and done a quick test after the vehicle has had a 200 miles shakedown. 1.2m with 5kg hanging on it and the time for 45 deg to horizontal averaged out at about 35 sec.

The old unit at 125k took 50 seconds.

I'll keep an eye on it every 5000 miles or so.

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Brilliant, thanks for posting.

My latest purchase has 115k on it and took 3 minutes for the same test.
Not surprisingly at one point I wasn't sure I was going to make it home the 65 miles from the previous owners house. I could feel the drive train tightening up as I drove, then when I hit a bumpy patch on the road it freed up again.
At least that's what It felt like was happening.
First job I did was to whip the propshaft off, then ordered a load of bits for it including new diff supports. The front support was replaced only 8k ago but was completely trashed.

The irony is the guy had it listed as Mint!!!!!

4x4Dog said:

Ok, replaced the VCU with one from Bell Engineering and done a quick test after the vehicle has had a 200 miles shakedown. 1.2m with 5kg hanging on it and the time for 45 deg to horizontal averaged out at about 35 sec.

The old unit at 125k took 50 seconds.

I'll keep an eye on it every 5000 miles or so.

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Interesting time you are getting with the reconditioned VCU. I'm getting about 45 seconds on the 5Kg @ 1.2 M which I felt is to slow. Obviously it's not as bad as I thought. I am planning a DIY VCU refurb this summer, but maybe it'll wait until next summer? From reading this thread, a new VCU seams to be about 18 seconds which is considerably shorter.

Nodge68 said:

Interesting time you are getting with the reconditioned VCU. I'm getting about 45 seconds on the 5Kg @ 1.2 M which I felt is to slow. Obviously it's not as bad as I thought. I am planning a DIY VCU refurb this summer, but maybe it'll wait until next summer? From reading this thread, a new VCU seams to be about 18 seconds which is considerably shorter.

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Actually, I redid the test today and I was at 25 seconds (rounding up). It started chucking it down the other day so I might have been a bit distracted and in my haste tested it with THE WHEEL GOING BACKWARDS!

4x4Dog said:

Actually, I redid the test today and I was at 25 seconds (rounding up). It started chucking it down the other day so I might have been a bit distracted and in my haste tested it with THE WHEEL GOING BACKWARDS!

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Can't see it would matter which direction you do the test. The VCU works the same either direction.

Alibro said:

Can't see it would matter which direction you do the test. The VCU works the same either direction.

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Forwards or backwards will make no difference to the VCU test.

It is not possible to get a false 'good' reading from the 1WUT - but it is possible to get a false 'bad' reading - for example if the brakes are binding a bit. It is unlikely, but it readings were different going forwards to backwards - I'd be wanting to strip and check the brake.

That assumes the tests are done at the same time.

I can see why 1WUT would give differing results if done at different times though - with the VCU at different temperatures. If it was stone cold on a cold day and did a time of 35 seconds, it could be expected to do a time of 25 seconds if it was warm (after a journey) on a warmer day.

Its also easy doing the 1WUT to not use the same starting and ending positions. I did it in the garage one time (oohh errr) with not a lot of room around the car and it was difficult seeing when the bar was at 45 or 90 degrees.

I did the one wheel up test today, VCU fitted by Bell Engineering at the end of January 2015, Hippo has done 4144 miles since fitting.
From 45 deg to horizontal with 1.2 metre bar and 5kg weight took 35 seconds.

That seems tight for one year, unless you have been doing quite a bit of serious off roading or mismatching tyres.

I think its OK. About 30 seconds I believe is a good reading.

No offroading, and a full set of tyres fitted before I had VCU changed.
I read in a post on this thread that 30 to 40 seconds is good, so I'll do the test again in a few months time, to play safe.

brownie55 said:

No offroading, and a full set of tyres fitted before I had VCU changed.
I read in a post on this thread that 30 to 40 seconds is good, so I'll do the test again in a few months time, to play safe.

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I'd have thought 30 seconds is about right for a new one.

New vcu fitted 500klm ago custom refurbished with 60k silicone fluid WUT done after 180klm journey mixed driving Vcu temp at start 15c at time tested 18c. 15 sec for 45deg to horizontal.
Old vcu was the Factory fitted unit mileage at change 172000 virtually all motorway with just a Little beach driving + has never towed

fredi250 said:

New vcu fitted 500klm ago custom refurbished with 60k silicone fluid WUT done after 180klm journey mixed driving Vcu temp at start 15c at time tested 18c. 15 sec for 45deg to horizontal.
Old vcu was the Factory fitted unit mileage at change 172000 virtually all motorway with just a Little beach driving + has never towed

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Interesting result. If we didn't categorically know before, we can pretty accurately say that the standard unit does use 100k CST (or very close to it).

Presumably the 60k fluid will put less stress on the transmission under normal road based driving. I wonder if with a unit designed for 100k fluid (size, number of plates, plate gap etc) will operate well with 60k fluid - eg whether it will still lock into hump mode, if it does whether it occurs slower or maybe faster, if it doesn't lock or takes longer to whether there will be extra wear on the plates to contaminate the fluid. All unknowns and there's probably lots more, will be interesting to see how you get on. I'm not knocking the 60k fluid, just thoughts. I think the Scandinavian crew have even used 30k fluid for cars that never go off road - that presumably has little more effect than running 2WD.