Hello, I have a 52 plate Freelander 1, 1.8 petrol on 90k miles. Today whilst driving through the town centre, a knocking noise started underneath the car but I couldn't work out if it was from the front or the rear. The knocking noise was constant while the car was in motion and disappeared when stationary. The knocking noise became louder depending on the speed of the car. There was no noise when the engine was on and stationary. The noise was constant regardless of the clutch pressed or released. When I came to a set of traffic lights and started to slow down, the car jerked and felt as though something seized and felt as though something was trying to stop the car moving forward. (if that makes sense) I immediately stopped and turned off the engine. When the lights turned back to green I started the car and was able to continue my journey but the knocking noise was still constant. Just before I pulled up home, again at low speed the car made a grinding noise and a loud knock and felt as though it couldn't move forward. I stopped the car and felt the VCU and it was red hot to touch. I have little knowledge about these cars but I know that when a VCU is hot to touch then it's probably seized...how can I tell if it has seized? Is there any way to check the condition of the IRD? I'm also a member of the AA and I'm covered for parts and labour costs after a breakdown to the amount of £500 which isn't a lot and it doesn't cover wear and tear. So my second question is could this be classed as a breakdown? Because in theory I can drive the car but if I do then I'll end up breaking the VCU, IRD, and rear diff. Absolutely wounded at the fact I'm probably facing a bill of £1000+ especially if the AA class this as wear and tear and don't pay the £500 towards costs. I daren't drive my car either. Help please...
Sounds pretty ominous
I would immediately remove the VCU complete with the 2 pieces of propshaft to prevent any further damage and certainly don't move the car in its current condition
If it drives ok when the propshaft complete with VCU is removed you may be ok
Report your findings for the next input of advice
Good luck
I would immediately remove the VCU complete with the 2 pieces of propshaft to prevent any further damage and certainly don't move the car in its current condition
If it drives ok when the propshaft complete with VCU is removed you may be ok
Report your findings for the next input of advice
Good luck
freelance
Well-Known Member
It is most probably a failed ird, but before you go into despair checks need to be made, it's possible it is just the vcu bearings, it is possible the rear diff is at fault therefore putting extra load on vcu, normally they get warm if they are working properly, it is possible the splines have stripped at the front so the vehicle is working as a rwd.
Checks need to be done, one wheel up and check the vcu all wheels up and check what turns and or crunches when wheels are moved manually, you might need to remove prop shaft complete and use in mondo mode, it might be just a stiff in and a knackered diff mounting, DO NOT DRIVE UNTIL DIAGNOSED, IT WILL SAVE YOU MONEY IN LONG RUN!!!!
Checks need to be done, one wheel up and check the vcu all wheels up and check what turns and or crunches when wheels are moved manually, you might need to remove prop shaft complete and use in mondo mode, it might be just a stiff in and a knackered diff mounting, DO NOT DRIVE UNTIL DIAGNOSED, IT WILL SAVE YOU MONEY IN LONG RUN!!!!
chris51
New Member
From what iv read on this fourm and from you tube vidios it sounds like your ird is nakerd. If you go on you tube and search for freelander ird or something there is a vidio on there of one thats gone, suppose you could see if it has the same noise as yours. Failing that remove the vcu and see if the noise continues.
Hope this helps mate. Good luck with it all.
Hope this helps mate. Good luck with it all.
Thanks everyone for the replies. The problem I have is that I don't know what I'm doing and daren't drive it to the garage I use for them to do the checks etc. Does anyone know if I could class this as a breakdown and get the AA to tow me to the garage? Or would they expect me to continue to drive my car until it's literally knackered and won't move. Bloody thing.
Hippo
Lord Hippo
You would need to look at the paperwork or what it covers online, to see what the definition of a breakdown is.
Be careful when jacking up yer Freelander. Never work under it without correct support. They is heavy.
Full transmission tests on a Freelander 1 can be done like this:
Be careful when jacking up yer Freelander. Never work under it without correct support. They is heavy.
Full transmission tests on a Freelander 1 can be done like this:
Hippo said:
Thanks for the heads up with the youtube video. This is the video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TRNQj0o_RzU and that's the exact same knocking noise. And the video states it's a failed IRD. Well first thing is first I suppose and I'll get the VCU and prop shafts off. Am I right in thinking that if the noise still persists then I need a new IRD and VCU. But if the car drives ok etc then I'll possibly just need a new VCU? And thanks for the advice on transmission tests.
chris51
New Member
No problem mate. Id take the prop off and see if it still knocking. Take a look at hippo's thread replacing vcu bearing its a complete guide how to take the prop and vcu off. I had never took mine off before but its really easy. Use some axle stands to take the weight tho cous its quite heavy.
htr
Well-Known Member
If you have the equipment /tools then the one wheel up test would be a good start. A good VCU should travel from 45º to horizontal in 20 to 30 seconds when cold. That test will help to determine if the VCU is faulty.
After that, removing the prop shafts and VCU will reduce the chance of further damage from a faulty VCU.
My guess, and other/s have said so too, is that it's likely the IRD bearings have failed. This will ultimately have to be fixed.
Sorry if this has been covered before, but should I be able to move the prop shafts by hand? I can turn the front prop about 1.5 inch and this also turns the rear prop. Is that right? Also at the very front of the prop where it looks like it attaches to the IRD there is a large oil splash or leak or something where the oil is on the front prop and also a large splash area on the roof of the underneath of the car. If that makes sense. Also should the rear prop and front prop be aligned or different. The positions of which they have turned are not aligned. They have turned at different speeds or times. Is that right? Sorry if this is a daft question. I've taken pictures if I've not explained properly
do the wheel up test
Hippo
Lord Hippo
The oil leak at the front... is that the grease from the rubber boot thing which may have split. It sits on the end of the front prop to cover the joint. The grease spins out as the prop rotates and hits the underside of yer hippo.
Props turning... if it's turning too much when stationary then think of the teeth in gears being loose when they mesh together. This could be down to wear or movement of the gears. A video of it turning will give us a good indication.
Props turning... if it's turning too much when stationary then think of the teeth in gears being loose when they mesh together. This could be down to wear or movement of the gears. A video of it turning will give us a good indication.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
Hey, someone's found my video useful 
At the time I was really ****ed with the Freelander. I'd sold a car I loved (a D1) and replaced it with a Freelander that I had complete indifference to - but its what the Mrs wanted. It repaid me within a couple of years by doing that!
However, I quickly realised it was me that had created the fault, and after working on it to fix it - I actually appreciated the car a lot more and now love it more than my old Discos! I've now had it 5 years and other than this (and the ABS modulator) its given me great trouble free service. So its not the end of the world - but it might be the end of your bank account!
What ever you do, do not drive it as it is (ie with the props installed). You may be lucky in the $ dept at the moment, but 100 yards down the road could convert that to $1,000s.
You have 3 things to consider:
1) What caused it.
2) What's now broken.
3) How are you going to fix it.
1) What caused it. This probably isn't the most important thing, but to understand the problem and stop it happening again, its in your interest to. My case was very similar you yours, I was diving along fine, car developed a rattle knocking that sounded like it was from the rear (but wasn't) got a bit worse, then a mile or so down the road BANG, then BANG BAG BANG. It was like someone was whacking the car with a sledgehammer every turn of the road wheel (either moving it under power or pushing it). In my case the car had felt a bit 'strange' - but ignored it as we had friends visiting ad wanted to go out exploring - big mistake. It turned out a tyre had lost some pressure and after driving on it for about 450km the windup had trashed the IRD.
I'm of the belief that a lot of transmission failures are due to incorrect tyres and people's lack of knowledge of the importance of same size tyres/pressures needed.
Your problem could have been caused by a tyre low of pressure, mismatched tyres - a relatively small mismatch will cause enough wind up that over time the IRD will fail, its a case of rate of wear, it could be the VCU was too tight and not allowing enough slip on the small tolerances allowed in tyre diameter.
As said, it might not be a windup issue as such. It could be something like the splines have gone between the gearbox and IRD - but if this were the case, the VCU would not get "red hot to touch".
I'm assuming its a windup issue that has trashed your IRD.
2) What's gone wrong? When there's windup in the transmission of the Freelander, it puts huge stresses on the IRD and rear diff. The rear diff can go, but usually its the IRD - both will probably have suffered high wear, but its likely the IRD has 'gone'. I'd take the props and VCU off - lift the car on 1 side placing blocks under the wheels on that side and lower it on to them - this gives you more room under the car. There are 6 or so bolts at either end of the prop that fix it to the IRD & diff - loosen the ones you have access to. Then push the car along the blocks (put more blocks in front if needed) then loosen the remaining bolts you didn't have access to before (pushing turns the prop). Be carefull when you remove the last couple on either end as the prop will drop and its heavy - take its weight and lower it onto something that will support it at not to greater angle from the VCU. Then put a jack under the VCU and remove the 4 bolts supporting it - lower the jack and remove props/VCU.
Then you can take it for a slow, short test drive as I did in my video. The big noises should have gone - if they haven't then we're back to looking at splines etc. Assuming they have though.. Give the rear pinion on the IRD a wiggle - it may rotate a small amount, that's expected, but should not have any lateral movement - I'm expecting there will be and that's because the bearing in the pinion is shot - if there's no movement then the IRD is probably OK and what I say here should be questioned!. You then need to drain the IRD's oil - the drain and fill pugs are reasonable accessible, but loosen the fill plug first before draining - if you can't get the fill plug lose, you'll need oil in it to get it to a garage. The oil will probably come out grey in colour - being ground down metal from the bearings. There may also be a few chunks of metal that are teeth from gears and the magnet on the drain plug will probably have attracted a lot of 'swarf'. You then need to remove the rear pinion from the IRD - undo the bolts holding it on and withdraw it - it was a bit fiddly withdrawing mine. Examine the teeth on the gear on the end of the withdrawn pinion - check to see their condition - does it still look good or is it damaged. Do the same with the gear it mates to inside the IRD - you will have to push the car so that it turns to see all of it.
Before you take the props off, you could do a 1 wheel up test to check the VCU - however, regardless of whether it was knackered before, it will probably be now or very shortly - so I wouldn't rely on it.
3) How are you going to fix it? This depends on what's broke and whether you want the car as 2WD or 4WD. I think most people would like 4WD and it depends on the cost of fixing it whether they then opt for 2WD.
To rebuild as 4WD, you will need those crown and pinion gears in good condition. If they are not you may as well finish your investigation and determine that you need a recon IRD and VCU. If the teeth are OK - you then need to address the bearings. I got a complete bearing kit (inc seals & cooler) from One Stop Gearbox Shop and had a gearbox shop hear fit them. With hind sight - I recon I could have got away with just the bearing in the pinion replaced - it would have been a lot cheaper and the IRD could have stayed on the car. Its up to you and others may give advice. The alternative is a recon IRD and if you're replacing all the bearings, there's little price difference (it was for me as you can't get recon IRDs here in NZ). You'll then also need a VCU. Oh and m,ake sure your tyres are all the same, in good condition and pumped to the same pressure.
If the cost is too much to rebuild as 4WD (or you want to make sure it doesn't happen again) and you can live with (or want to sell it as!) 2WD, the simplest thing is to put a blanking plate on the IRD where the rear pinion was and fill it with oil. £10 for the plate plus oil. If the remaining bearings in the IRD are serviceable, this will be sufficient. I had all the bearings replaced for peace of mind and had the gear on the end of the pinion removed so that no drive went to the props. I then bolted it all back together with props and VCU - the VCU serves no purpose now, so it doesn't matter that its naff. You could look to do this or simlpy get a recon 2WD IRD rather than buying bearings and having them fitted. Comparing my car to others who have gone 2WD without props, I'm sure retaining the props has a dampening effect on engine movement and makes the car more comfortable.
As I say - its not the end of the world, our Freelander's run perfect since I had transmission melt down.
At the time I was really ****ed with the Freelander. I'd sold a car I loved (a D1) and replaced it with a Freelander that I had complete indifference to - but its what the Mrs wanted. It repaid me within a couple of years by doing that!
However, I quickly realised it was me that had created the fault, and after working on it to fix it - I actually appreciated the car a lot more and now love it more than my old Discos! I've now had it 5 years and other than this (and the ABS modulator) its given me great trouble free service. So its not the end of the world - but it might be the end of your bank account!
What ever you do, do not drive it as it is (ie with the props installed). You may be lucky in the $ dept at the moment, but 100 yards down the road could convert that to $1,000s.
You have 3 things to consider:
1) What caused it.
2) What's now broken.
3) How are you going to fix it.
1) What caused it. This probably isn't the most important thing, but to understand the problem and stop it happening again, its in your interest to. My case was very similar you yours, I was diving along fine, car developed a rattle knocking that sounded like it was from the rear (but wasn't) got a bit worse, then a mile or so down the road BANG, then BANG BAG BANG. It was like someone was whacking the car with a sledgehammer every turn of the road wheel (either moving it under power or pushing it). In my case the car had felt a bit 'strange' - but ignored it as we had friends visiting ad wanted to go out exploring - big mistake. It turned out a tyre had lost some pressure and after driving on it for about 450km the windup had trashed the IRD.
I'm of the belief that a lot of transmission failures are due to incorrect tyres and people's lack of knowledge of the importance of same size tyres/pressures needed.
Your problem could have been caused by a tyre low of pressure, mismatched tyres - a relatively small mismatch will cause enough wind up that over time the IRD will fail, its a case of rate of wear, it could be the VCU was too tight and not allowing enough slip on the small tolerances allowed in tyre diameter.
As said, it might not be a windup issue as such. It could be something like the splines have gone between the gearbox and IRD - but if this were the case, the VCU would not get "red hot to touch".
I'm assuming its a windup issue that has trashed your IRD.
2) What's gone wrong? When there's windup in the transmission of the Freelander, it puts huge stresses on the IRD and rear diff. The rear diff can go, but usually its the IRD - both will probably have suffered high wear, but its likely the IRD has 'gone'. I'd take the props and VCU off - lift the car on 1 side placing blocks under the wheels on that side and lower it on to them - this gives you more room under the car. There are 6 or so bolts at either end of the prop that fix it to the IRD & diff - loosen the ones you have access to. Then push the car along the blocks (put more blocks in front if needed) then loosen the remaining bolts you didn't have access to before (pushing turns the prop). Be carefull when you remove the last couple on either end as the prop will drop and its heavy - take its weight and lower it onto something that will support it at not to greater angle from the VCU. Then put a jack under the VCU and remove the 4 bolts supporting it - lower the jack and remove props/VCU.
Then you can take it for a slow, short test drive as I did in my video. The big noises should have gone - if they haven't then we're back to looking at splines etc. Assuming they have though.. Give the rear pinion on the IRD a wiggle - it may rotate a small amount, that's expected, but should not have any lateral movement - I'm expecting there will be and that's because the bearing in the pinion is shot - if there's no movement then the IRD is probably OK and what I say here should be questioned!. You then need to drain the IRD's oil - the drain and fill pugs are reasonable accessible, but loosen the fill plug first before draining - if you can't get the fill plug lose, you'll need oil in it to get it to a garage. The oil will probably come out grey in colour - being ground down metal from the bearings. There may also be a few chunks of metal that are teeth from gears and the magnet on the drain plug will probably have attracted a lot of 'swarf'. You then need to remove the rear pinion from the IRD - undo the bolts holding it on and withdraw it - it was a bit fiddly withdrawing mine. Examine the teeth on the gear on the end of the withdrawn pinion - check to see their condition - does it still look good or is it damaged. Do the same with the gear it mates to inside the IRD - you will have to push the car so that it turns to see all of it.
Before you take the props off, you could do a 1 wheel up test to check the VCU - however, regardless of whether it was knackered before, it will probably be now or very shortly - so I wouldn't rely on it.
3) How are you going to fix it? This depends on what's broke and whether you want the car as 2WD or 4WD. I think most people would like 4WD and it depends on the cost of fixing it whether they then opt for 2WD.
To rebuild as 4WD, you will need those crown and pinion gears in good condition. If they are not you may as well finish your investigation and determine that you need a recon IRD and VCU. If the teeth are OK - you then need to address the bearings. I got a complete bearing kit (inc seals & cooler) from One Stop Gearbox Shop and had a gearbox shop hear fit them. With hind sight - I recon I could have got away with just the bearing in the pinion replaced - it would have been a lot cheaper and the IRD could have stayed on the car. Its up to you and others may give advice. The alternative is a recon IRD and if you're replacing all the bearings, there's little price difference (it was for me as you can't get recon IRDs here in NZ). You'll then also need a VCU. Oh and m,ake sure your tyres are all the same, in good condition and pumped to the same pressure.
If the cost is too much to rebuild as 4WD (or you want to make sure it doesn't happen again) and you can live with (or want to sell it as!) 2WD, the simplest thing is to put a blanking plate on the IRD where the rear pinion was and fill it with oil. £10 for the plate plus oil. If the remaining bearings in the IRD are serviceable, this will be sufficient. I had all the bearings replaced for peace of mind and had the gear on the end of the pinion removed so that no drive went to the props. I then bolted it all back together with props and VCU - the VCU serves no purpose now, so it doesn't matter that its naff. You could look to do this or simlpy get a recon 2WD IRD rather than buying bearings and having them fitted. Comparing my car to others who have gone 2WD without props, I'm sure retaining the props has a dampening effect on engine movement and makes the car more comfortable.
As I say - its not the end of the world, our Freelander's run perfect since I had transmission melt down.
Thank you for that in depth answer. I would like to keep the vehicle as a 4wd as that was the whole point in buying it, but I don't have the knowledge or tools needed to perform certain tests or even take the prop off. If I take the props + VCU off and the car is ok does this simply mean I only need to replace the VCU or also the bearings on the IRD? I'm kind of at a loss at the moment where I'm on the verge of just getting it towed to my local garage, explaining the situation to them and leave them to it, but at the same time, if I have to replace the VCU, support bracket and IRD then surely it's £800+ for parts then however much for labour, if I convert to 2wd will the price be much different? I'd prefer to swap cars all together, stick with the Freelander but get the 2.0 diesel BMW TD4 engine as its more reliable and better mpg, obviously i could end up in the same situation. But I can't justify spending £1000 just to then sell it anyway but at this moment in time I'm stuck with a knackered car. I think first thing is first, I'll phone the AA explain to them what's happened, get them to tow the car to the garage, and hopefully they will contribute the £500 towards parts and labour costs, hopefully. It's not much, but when you're potentially looking at paying £1000+ then £500 is very helpful. Knowing my luck the AA will class this as "wear and tear" and refuse to pay the £500 towards costs. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Just a quick update, I believe I have discovered that it is "transmission wind up" I supported the front wheels, placed the car in gear, took the handbrake off and jacked the passenger side rear up. With the back wheel off the ground I was able to freely rotate the wheel forwards and backwards approx 6 inches with the car in and out of gear, then the wheel would feel very tight. The only way I can explain what the wheel feels like is, when you pull an elastic band very tightly, the tension you feel in the band just before it snaps. Does that make sense? So I am able to move the wheel in either direction approx 6 inch then there is a lot of tension. Next step will now be to get the AA to recover the vehicle to my local garage to remove the prop shafts and VCU. Then drive the car to see if the banging noise still persists
