Yeah, you're right. I just realised I haven't a clue what I'm talking about.
I'm with you InstantSquid, so that makes us a pair of silly clots who know nothing. Right?
CharlesY
I'm with you InstantSquid, so that makes us a pair of silly clots who know nothing. Right?
CharlesY
instantsquid
New Member
Looks like it!
mundungus
Active Member
Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies.
Its discs all round, no drums.
Hmm, your description of your brakes makes me think even more that mine are rubbish. For mine Id say hardly any feel and I think Id have to stand bolt upright on the pedal to lock them up.
My other car is a 1999 rover 220. Disc front and drums rear and doesnt have any new fangled ABS or stability control or anything clever like that. They are much better than the landys though, especially in the dry, but they do lock up easy in the wet (but I think thats more to do with my crap choice of tyres than the brakes). I wouldnt say Im expecting too much from the Landy, I'm not really used to anything else that's brilliant.
Oh dont get me wrong I completely agree. I tend to leave quite a gap to the car in front when driving in general (although sometimes in the Landy its because I cant catch them up ).
Its just things like last weeks brown trouser moment when a skip lorry I was following done an emergency stop from about 50mph because there was an ambulance coming the other way wanting to overtake something using our lane. I was a good 2 seconds behind him and he stopped a heck of a lot quicker than I did. Bearing in mind he was carrying a skip so would have been heavy. I slammed on the brakes pretty hard and only stopped a metre or two behind him (the wheels didnt lock). Just seemed too close for comfort.
Thanks for all your suggestions. I think I will have a good play with the callipers and pry bar, make sure theyre all working. I hadnt really considered that because it doesnt pull to one side or anything when braking. I may well look into some stainless braided hoses also.
If I do go down the vented disc route, would I definitely have to change callipers also? I wonder if they would be thicker discs and give clearance issues maybe?
Thanks for all the replies.
Its discs all round, no drums.
Hmm, your description of your brakes makes me think even more that mine are rubbish. For mine Id say hardly any feel and I think Id have to stand bolt upright on the pedal to lock them up.
My other car is a 1999 rover 220. Disc front and drums rear and doesnt have any new fangled ABS or stability control or anything clever like that. They are much better than the landys though, especially in the dry, but they do lock up easy in the wet (but I think thats more to do with my crap choice of tyres than the brakes). I wouldnt say Im expecting too much from the Landy, I'm not really used to anything else that's brilliant.
Oh dont get me wrong I completely agree. I tend to leave quite a gap to the car in front when driving in general (although sometimes in the Landy its because I cant catch them up
). Its just things like last weeks brown trouser moment when a skip lorry I was following done an emergency stop from about 50mph because there was an ambulance coming the other way wanting to overtake something using our lane. I was a good 2 seconds behind him and he stopped a heck of a lot quicker than I did. Bearing in mind he was carrying a skip so would have been heavy. I slammed on the brakes pretty hard and only stopped a metre or two behind him (the wheels didnt lock). Just seemed too close for comfort.
Thanks for all your suggestions. I think I will have a good play with the callipers and pry bar, make sure theyre all working. I hadnt really considered that because it doesnt pull to one side or anything when braking. I may well look into some stainless braided hoses also.
If I do go down the vented disc route, would I definitely have to change callipers also? I wonder if they would be thicker discs and give clearance issues maybe?
That will not help the braking power in any way you will notice.
As you say, first make sure all the caliper pistons are moving freely.
Next, bear in mind all brake pads are not equal. Some are much harder than others. Hard ones last a long time but you REALLY need to stand on the pedal to stop quickly. Softer pads make the brakes MUCH sharper, but don't last as long.
One way would be to speak to Ferodo or Mintex, and ask them if they can supply softer pads for your car. I bet they can.
Next ... the servo. Is it working properly?
Make SURE you are getting full vacuum at the servo, and what about the servo air filter? You have changed that or cleaned it, right?
It doesn't any harm to change the brake fluid.
You might be pleased what a difference that can make.
CharlesY
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
as i said before if you want good brakes get vented calipers £50 ebc disc and pads for front and ebc pads rear and new calipers if yours look coroded ,ive fitted them to my own and many others does make a difference, vented calipers are only different in that they have a spacer between caliper halves if you can get spacers and bolts you can make you own , also make sure you have the larger 110 calipers as they have larger piston which give more braking pressure 300 should have them
but be wary if yu go thru mud, coz vented discs can clog .
.
Vented discs will not make any difference to your braking power, but they will stay cooler when worked hard, and you will have to work them very hard before thy fail.
I would say that as mentioned before, you should check that the calipers are working ok and not partially seized and be sure the pads are up to scratch.
Nowt wrong with 90 brakes if they are looked after and working as they should.
If you want to upgrade then stick some 110 or Disco calipers on the front and use a Disco master cylinder . Some early Discos had vented and some solid discs, I scrapped a 'K' reg with vented and used them on my 'L' reg as they were solid.
Master cylinder not difficult only four bolts but you will have to blank two of the outlet pipes off (twin circuit) for the ninety. I'm putting 110 calipers and Disco master cylinder on mine shortly but only because the brakes are crap and I have the parts in stock so why not?
I would say that as mentioned before, you should check that the calipers are working ok and not partially seized and be sure the pads are up to scratch.
Nowt wrong with 90 brakes if they are looked after and working as they should.
If you want to upgrade then stick some 110 or Disco calipers on the front and use a Disco master cylinder . Some early Discos had vented and some solid discs, I scrapped a 'K' reg with vented and used them on my 'L' reg as they were solid.
Master cylinder not difficult only four bolts but you will have to blank two of the outlet pipes off (twin circuit) for the ninety. I'm putting 110 calipers and Disco master cylinder on mine shortly but only because the brakes are crap and I have the parts in stock so why not?
but be wary if yu go thru mud, coz vented discs can clog
Vented discs are a fashion fad accessory, and they do NOT make your braking better in all normal circumstances.
Disc brakes depend on a number of factors:
1. the disc material. NOTHING in common use is better than cast iron.
2. the brake pad lining material and area, and its ability not to suffer under heat stress
3. the clamping pressure that can be applied to the pads.
4. the rotation speed of the disc
In normal use brake discs will be cool or warm, but on a long run on good roads, stone cold. After ONE hard stop from more than about 40mph, Landy front discs will be H-O-T! If you were really thrashing the car and braking like an idiot, you might even get the discs to glow red hot. At this stage you are risking total brake failure. In these circumstances vented discs will let you drive like an idiot for a minute or two longer before brake failure occurs.
Brake failure will occur if / when the fluid in the caliper BOILS, or if water in the fluid boils, which would happen first. There are other reasons for brake failure too, such as disintegration of a pad or two, or a caliper seal melting from heat.
The vent slots have practically no significant cooling effect, but the thicker metal means the vented discs will stay a little cooler for a little longer. They will take more braking time to heat them up. However, the reverse is also true - Vented discs will take longer to cool down because there is more metal involved.
Standard discs and pads are fine for me. Only in my motor sport days did we dabble in harder pads, such as Ferodo DS-11 which never let us down even with red hot glowing discs, but Geez, we had to stand on the brake pedal hard to slow down! In motor sport, slowing down was a last resort anyway!
CharlesY
wickford90
Well-Known Member
Have you stopped taking your pills? Who the **** is talking about a power upgrade, I said my brake calipers were seized when I replaced the discs.
I'm afraid to say that sort of trick could hoick you right off the road in an 'extreme stop' situation, but probably not in real life.
I understand what you were doing, but let's re-state the basic principle - make all the bits of all the brakes the same from side to side. Both SIDES should always be the same, so the car brakes in a straight line.
When I had my garage way back in the 1970s, a customer brought a Morris Marina (wow, that was a car!) that always pulled to one side braking at low speeds, and the other side at higher speeds. This car was quite new and in warranty. The main dealers had failed to sort it, and the AA had inspected it and said it was fine.
Ha Blooming Ha! At the front, one side had a disc brake, but the other side had a drum brake.
CharlesY
I braked really hard with both hands off the wheel (not gripping it) and the Disco stopped in a straight line, it never pulled to one side during the week I drove it why would it? Same pads, same braking effort, same size discs I doubt if the MOT man could have failed it as the brakes were serviceable and safe.
I wonder what the MoT people would say if this was put to them.
If an MoT tester spotted this and failed it, and you appealed, I think the tester's decision would be upheld.
The answer to your question "it never pulled to one side during the week I drove it, why would it?" is that IN THEORY, under extreme conditions, the thinner lighter disc would heat up sooner than the thicker heavier one, and that MIGHT eventually cause one side to lose braking effort sooner than the other side. This would never happen in MoT test circumstances, but my bet is they would think long and hard, and then say both sides should be the same.
CharlesY
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
vented discs while only giving the same surface area as solid ,obviously only give same friction for force applied but they do perform better during extreme braking ,why wouldnt you fit them as they cost no more than solid system,whereas during everyday running you might not get the benefit but i would have thought an improvement under extreme conditions for no more money would be a no brainer,they are not a fad unless your over 60 ,all modern cars have vented discs ,i thought this was about uprating brakes not loosening pistons with lever bars or i can manage why cant you ,after improving my brakes it certainly did make a hell of a difference driving through mountain roads where as everyday i might not need it its nice to know you can pull up quicker than most
I am well over sixty, James, so that explains why I am so silly and ignorant.
You young chaps are lucky to be so clever!
I reckon I was as clever as you at your age - I knew it all, I did.
Then I got older, and wiser.
CharlesY
Here I have grey hairs, what's gramps up at this time for?
tottot
Well-Known Member
There is nothing wrong with drum brakes just so long that they are in good working order,that is good pipes and cylinders and drums that have not worn out and most important good shoes,[ ferodo mintex] had some unknown make on my 90 a while back,they were rubbish, poor braking and sometimes would snatch unexpectedley locking a rear wheel[not good]. FIT QUALITY PARTS.
Unless yu drive thru mud and water.
after water, yu tend to have next to no brakes for a while and when (not if) mud gets into them, it nackers them very quickly.
I know of one person that fitted new brakes, went to Salisbury and had to replace them again when they got home
.
