http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm

Extract;

--------------------
4x4 drivers face huge charge rise

Vehicles causing the most pollution in central London are to face huge
increases in the congestion charge, mayor Ken Livingstone has
announced.

The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G - which
includes 4x4s - is to rise from 8 to 25 from 2009.
--------------------

Now this is particularly stupid, the gloating, inaccurate headline
smacking of quite absurd prejudice, and the inaccurate statement that
4x4s are in band G. Well, some are, some aren't. I'd suggest people
fire off stinky letters pronto.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm
>
> Extract;
>
> --------------------
> 4x4 drivers face huge charge rise
>
> Vehicles causing the most pollution in central London are to face huge
> increases in the congestion charge, mayor Ken Livingstone has
> announced.
>
> The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G - which
> includes 4x4s - is to rise from 8 to 25 from 2009.
> --------------------
>
> Now this is particularly stupid, the gloating, inaccurate headline
> smacking of quite absurd prejudice, and the inaccurate statement that
> 4x4s are in band G. Well, some are, some aren't. I'd suggest people
> fire off stinky letters pronto.
>

I used the BBC complaints page to point out that the Mayors press release
did not mention 4x4 at all.

Neil

On 2006-11-14, Neil Wilson <neil@whichwayisup.org> wrote:

> I used the BBC complaints page to point out that the Mayors press release
> did not mention 4x4 at all.

When I wrote my complaint, the "thanks for your feedback" page
contained the following link in the "Notes" side column;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_5320000/newsid_5324700/5324718.stm

Basically an article by someone complaining about the prejudice, and
the answer coming back that basically they moan about 4x4s all the
time as it's easier to type than "high emission vehicle"... This is
despite the articles's complaint that the Mini Cooper is dirtier than
many 4x4s so it's not fair to even use it as shorthand.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

>Basically an article by someone complaining about the prejudice, and
>the answer coming back that basically they moan about 4x4s all the
>time as it's easier to type than "high emission vehicle"... This is
>despite the articles's complaint that the Mini Cooper is dirtier than
>many 4x4s so it's not fair to even use it as shorthand.
>
>

And how about the (excuse my language on a LR group) Fiat Panda 4x4
coming in with a whopping 156g/l CO2 emissions puting it into band D?
That is definitely a 4x4 but hardly a gas guzzler.

Lizzy

On 2006-11-14, Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm
>
> --------------------
> 4x4 drivers face huge charge rise
>
> Vehicles causing the most pollution in central London are to face huge
> increases in the congestion charge, mayor Ken Livingstone has
> announced.
>
> The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G - which
> includes 4x4s - is to rise from 8 to 25 from 2009.
> --------------------

Article has now been updated, title now reads "Polluting cars face
rise" and the only reference to 4x4s is as follows;

"The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G, which
includes some 4x4s, is to rise to 25 from 2009."

I hope someone got a kick in the arse for that one! At least they
updated it, they're not as crap as some media outlets.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

> Article has now been updated, title now reads "Polluting cars face
> rise" and the only reference to 4x4s is as follows;
>
> "The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G, which
> includes some 4x4s, is to rise to 25 from 2009."
>
> I hope someone got a kick in the arse for that one! At least they
> updated it, they're not as crap as some media outlets.

It's clear to me we need a recognised religion.... most of us preach to the
"Oh please no god" , or the more regular term "come off you f**k**g b*s*a*d
heap of ****", on Saturdays and Sundays... and the respective workshop
manuals must be our bible....."Thou shalt not jack without an axle stand"
etc etc....

We need to keep up pressure on Media such as this, It's a cracking example
of people power! Maybe we need a site to complile such glaringly obvious
targetting of 4x4 owners, name and shame I say!

Or perhaphs a site that looks at the positive side of 4x4 use such as the
many many volunteer groups. Many will know I have called on our local groups
in my role when the City ground to a halt due to a big freeze. It was
recognised by both the Council and Heads of my outfit Plod Inc that had they
not turned out major artierial roads & junctions would have remained blocked
for several hours more thus preventing any gritters getting through. I know
for certain that I'd be telling Mr Mayor where to stick his congestion
charge if they found London in a similar predicament.

I guess the 4x4 prejudice site is pretty much the above positive site I'm
thinking of.

Lee D

On 2006-11-14, Lee_D <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> wrote:

> We need to keep up pressure on Media such as this, It's a cracking
> example of people power! Maybe we need a site to complile such
> glaringly obvious targetting of 4x4 owners, name and shame I say!

Well if anyone wants it then I have a copy of the original and then
updated web pages as PDFs, send me an email to this address from a
valid email address (so I can just hit "reply" and not have to dick
about with people's ideas of email obfuscation) and I'll zap it to
you.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <4rtvs9Fsic6aU1@mid.individual.net>
"Lee_D" <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> wrote:

> Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>
> > Article has now been updated, title now reads "Polluting cars face
> > rise" and the only reference to 4x4s is as follows;
> >
> > "The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G, which
> > includes some 4x4s, is to rise to 25 from 2009."
> >
> > I hope someone got a kick in the arse for that one! At least they
> > updated it, they're not as crap as some media outlets.
>
> It's clear to me we need a recognised religion.... most of us preach to the
> "Oh please no god" , or the more regular term "come off you f**k**g b*s*a*d
> heap of ****", on Saturdays and Sundays... and the respective workshop
> manuals must be our bible....."Thou shalt not jack without an axle stand"
> etc etc....
>

<Snip>

>
> Lee D
>
>

I've already got my religion, founded by Our Lord Wilkes at the
Amsterdam Motor Show in 1949....... and I can safely say, with
possible exception of the Seikhs, it's the only religion that
doesn't give a stuff about any other one, and has never started
a war (outside news groups). Every day is worship day, and
prayer is continual - with emphasis on times when keys are
turned in ignitons - so, in our multi-cultural society, I can
have any and every day of the week off by religious right as
I see fit.
Setting fire to BWM's is the ultimate offering, and is
exempt form all Health & Safety Rules, just like halall meat,
though we do insist on removing any occupants these days,
which is a shame as the ceremony was origianly intended to
improve road safety.
Our religious garb is overalls, liberally doused with
EP90, brake fluid, anti-freeze and any other combustable
material that takes our fancy. No one is allowed to object,
'coz its religeous garb - they just better hadn't complain
or we'll get the Police onto them. They can always clean
their carpets later.
Our highight of the year is know as "The Nationals". This is
where the masses gather for a weekend of celebration, and
getting as ****ed as it is possible to do on cheap crap
"event" beer. The culimination is the "Sacrifice of the Motors",
where our more energetic members seek enlightenment, and Sectioning,
by driving their religious icons (that they have usually spent
6 months getting ready in cold, dark religious places, known by
outsiders as "sheds") as fast as possible round a totally
improbable circuit. The winner, or more accurately survivor,
can, sometines, reach Nirvhana, and enter the gates of Load Lane.
We don't have formal places of worship, other than "parts shops",
and we can often be seen of Saturday afternoos cleansing our
souls by sniggering at Suzuki Vitara owners in shopping centre
car parks.....

Christ, this is good suff........

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On 2006-11-14, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

> I've already got my religion, founded by Our Lord Wilkes at the
> Amsterdam Motor Show in 1949....... and I can safely say, with
> possible exception of the Seikhs, it's the only religion that
> doesn't give a stuff about any other one, and has never started
> a war (outside news groups).

<rest deleted for sanity reasons>

Blimey, have you started stocking anti-freeze Richard?

> We don't have formal places of worship, other than "parts shops",
> and we can often be seen of Saturday afternoos cleansing our
> souls by sniggering at Suzuki Vitara owners in shopping centre
> car parks.....

Not to mention selecting BBC "journalists" for burning at the stake...

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

In message <slrneljvvv.dbs.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk>
Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:

> On 2006-11-14, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> > I've already got my religion, founded by Our Lord Wilkes at the
> > Amsterdam Motor Show in 1949....... and I can safely say, with
> > possible exception of the Seikhs, it's the only religion that
> > doesn't give a stuff about any other one, and has never started
> > a war (outside news groups).
>
> <rest deleted for sanity reasons>
>
> Blimey, have you started stocking anti-freeze Richard?
>
> > We don't have formal places of worship, other than "parts shops",
> > and we can often be seen of Saturday afternoos cleansing our
> > souls by sniggering at Suzuki Vitara owners in shopping centre
> > car parks.....
>
> Not to mention selecting BBC "journalists" for burning at the stake...
>

Nah, that's not religion, that's reality!

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

On 2006-11-14, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

> Nah, that's not religion, that's reality!

Talking of which, if you check out the ludicrous "have your say" board
thing attached to the beeb's latest tirade against 4x4s, not only will
you see an amazing torrent of total ****e, e.g. 4x4s use twice as much
of everything as normal cars etc etc ad infinitum, if you order by
"Reader's Recommended" then at the end of the second page you'll see
the following by a sensible chap called "The Famous Eccles" (i.e. me).
If anyone feels like it, log in if you have an account and see if you
can get it onto page one!

--------------------
My "enormous road-hogging 4x4" is a Land Rover Defender 110 pick-up,
it's less than 2 centimetres longer than my other car, a 1997 Audi
A4. Somehow though this 2 centimetres in extra length makes it a road
hog, despite it being 3 centimetres narrower.

Also, the list of "band G" cars has very few 4x4s on it, because they
are not the most polluting cars on the roads. Grow up you prejudiced
bunch of bigots. If you want to tackle a problem, then try a dose of
reality first.
--------------------

URL is;

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...=4724&edition=1&ttl=20061114213856&#paginator

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnelkej6.dbs.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> On 2006-11-14, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>> Nah, that's not religion, that's reality!
>
> Talking of which, if you check out the ludicrous "have your say" board
> thing attached to the beeb's latest tirade against 4x4s, not only will
> you see an amazing torrent of total ****e, e.g. 4x4s use twice as much
> of everything as normal cars etc etc ad infinitum, if you order by
> "Reader's Recommended" then at the end of the second page you'll see
> the following by a sensible chap called "The Famous Eccles" (i.e. me).
> If anyone feels like it, log in if you have an account and see if you
> can get it onto page one!
>
> --------------------
> My "enormous road-hogging 4x4" is a Land Rover Defender 110 pick-up,
> it's less than 2 centimetres longer than my other car, a 1997 Audi
> A4. Somehow though this 2 centimetres in extra length makes it a road
> hog, despite it being 3 centimetres narrower.
>
> Also, the list of "band G" cars has very few 4x4s on it, because they
> are not the most polluting cars on the roads. Grow up you prejudiced
> bunch of bigots. If you want to tackle a problem, then try a dose of
> reality first.
> --------------------
>
> URL is;
>
> http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...=4724&edition=1&ttl=20061114213856&#paginator
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Consider yourself recommended. 37 now

On 2006-11-14, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Consider yourself recommended. 37 now

Cheers. The amount of tosh posted by people really does make you
wonder if democracy is a good idea.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnelkiqd.dbs.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> On 2006-11-14, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Consider yourself recommended. 37 now
>
> Cheers. The amount of tosh posted by people really does make you
> wonder if democracy is a good idea.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Lets be honest with ourselves. Smokers said they would never get stopped, we
are now in danger of just that. I still say what I said about smoking, if it
is that BAD then BAN THE SALE!!!! This government will never do this as they
are laughing all the way to the bank. I was actually approached yesterday in
Bolton City centre whilst I was unloading my disability scooter via the
electric hoist, by a pillock. He was with his girlfriend and asked me if I
really needed the Disco? I informed him as politely as I could of all the
reasons I chose my Edie. I also explained, before he could talk about
alternatives, that I had tried them. He was about to continue his tirade,
possibly thinking that as I am disabled I was an easy target. However by
this time I had sidled my way to the drivers door, where I keep my steering
wheel lock, which is shaped as a baseball bat. I asked him two questions, 1)
what the f**k had my life to do with him, and 2) why was his nose bleeding?
He said that as I was killing the planet and therefore him and his
offspring, my choice was his concern (honest, I could not believe the crap
he was spouting). Then he checked his nose, (can you see whets coming, cuz
he did not). My nose is not bleeding he told me.......I REPLIED IT WILL BE
IN A F**KING MINUTE NOW **** OFF!! I then showed him my lawful steering
lock. Do you know, he walked away at that point, mumbling about polluters
driving big cars or somat. Honest I could not believe what was happening at
the time. As far as democracy goes, that died years ago, just ask the
prisoners in jail who are drug addicts.......

"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnelj9s5.dbs.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm
>
> Extract;
>
> --------------------
> 4x4 drivers face huge charge rise
>
> Vehicles causing the most pollution in central London are to face huge
> increases in the congestion charge, mayor Ken Livingstone has
> announced.
>
> The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G - which
> includes 4x4s - is to rise from 8 to 25 from 2009.
> --------------------
>
> Now this is particularly stupid, the gloating, inaccurate headline
> smacking of quite absurd prejudice, and the inaccurate statement that
> 4x4s are in band G. Well, some are, some aren't. I'd suggest people
> fire off stinky letters pronto.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Red Ken did mention 4x4s in a BBC radio interview however he didn't mention
this snippet quoted from The Times:
Among popular family cars that fall into band G and will pay £210 a year
(£215 for diesels) are the Renault Espace, Toyota Previa and Ford Galaxy -
Tony Blair's family car of choice - the Citroën C5, Vauxhall Vectra, Mazda
6, Honda Accord Tourer, Volvo S80 and some petrol-engined Ford Mondeos.
and of course this band only applies to new cars after march 2006 .

He also made a point how few they were forgetting to mention that the lowest
rated cars band A are practically none existent in the UK

Derek

Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-11-14, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Consider yourself recommended. 37 now
>
> Cheers. The amount of tosh posted by people really does make you
> wonder if democracy is a good idea.
>
In so many ways, democracy is the rule of the few. The great majority do
not give a stuff about anything that does not affect them directly.
Consequently they keep quiet and the decisions are made by those small
groups that can be bothered to get up and shout. This applies to the 4x4
nonsense, as much as anything else. (fill in your own issues here) I
am pretty sure we have not had a government elected by a majority of the
electorate in some considerable time. Sitting around bitching about it
in the pub won't get anywhere. At the very least, have your facts and
figures ready and challenge the tosh. Just for a laugh, look up the CO2
emissions of a typical taxi - the MetroCab - and ask yourself how many
of them there are in London.

Oh, and while I am all riled up - I tried to look up details of a trip
from Staffordshire to Olympia by public transport. Turns out it would
take half as long and cost half as much to do the trip on my own in my car.

And another thing (in the swing of it now) - I looked up some figures
about air travel. Remember how all those evil airliners are poisoning us
by flying lots of people to foreign lands? Turns out that a budget
airliner packed with passengers is likely to be more fuel efficient than
having them toddle off in pairs in the car over the same distance.

OK - calm now.

Pete

On 2006-11-15, Peter Harrison <peter_harrison@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> And another thing (in the swing of it now) - I looked up some figures
> about air travel. Remember how all those evil airliners are poisoning us
> by flying lots of people to foreign lands? Turns out that a budget
> airliner packed with passengers is likely to be more fuel efficient than
> having them toddle off in pairs in the car over the same distance.

I've heard this fuel efficiency of planes thing a few times recently,
but the original storm kicked up about planes was not the amount of
fuel they scoff, but what gets spewed out the exhausts and the height
at which it gets emitted makes them much worse than cars. I don't
have the details but if you're interested it was covered in the
articles of the time so some googling should turn up the results.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Out of curiosity what are the large number of older vehicles that fall into
no band whatsoever supposed to pay, can we go in for free?


--
Larry

Series 3 Rust and Holes


"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnelj9s5.dbs.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm
>
> Extract;
>
> --------------------
> 4x4 drivers face huge charge rise
>
> Vehicles causing the most pollution in central London are to face huge
> increases in the congestion charge, mayor Ken Livingstone has
> announced.
>
> The daily charge for vehicles in carbon emissions band G - which
> includes 4x4s - is to rise from 8 to 25 from 2009.
> --------------------
>
> Now this is particularly stupid, the gloating, inaccurate headline
> smacking of quite absurd prejudice, and the inaccurate statement that
> 4x4s are in band G. Well, some are, some aren't. I'd suggest people
> fire off stinky letters pronto.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-11-15, Larry <oz@ym.andius> wrote:

> Out of curiosity what are the large number of older vehicles that fall into
> no band whatsoever supposed to pay, can we go in for free?

Don't push that point or they'll ban them from the roads!

In the movies, when you drive such a vehicle into range, the central
computer would start saying "Does not compute!" and burst into flames,
causing the cameras to erupt in a shower of sparks, freeing the
population from their oppressors to the swelling strings of a
background orchestra.

Why don't you drive it in there and see? Take a video camera with you.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-11-14, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Consider yourself recommended. 37 now
>
> Cheers. The amount of tosh posted by people really does make you
> wonder if democracy is a good idea.

democracy, what's that?

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!