RHarker

RHarker

Member
My car is a Land Rover Freelander 2 HSE TD4 2008.

On Monday 26th August my car broke down, on the road from Lourdes towards Pau, in France. The traffic was slow. The previous day we had journeyed from Andorra to Lourdes across the mountain passes of the Pyrenees. During this part of the Journey, the car gave a little shudder, twice. I thought nothing of it.

When the car broke down, it was simply a case of the engine cutting out, and the car rolling forward to a standstill, with no power steering and no power assisted braking. An immediate attempt to restart the car, at the side of the road failed. After 5 mins , I tried again and the car started as normal and off we drove. Five minutes later, the engine cut out again, and we glided to the side of the road. An immediate attempt to restart the car failed, again. But, wait five minutes, and off we drove with the engine sounding quite normal. I decided to drive into the next garage A.S.A.P. We found a Norauto garage ( a bit like a Kwikfit, a few miles down the road. I parked the car near the service bays, and the manager kindly let his engineers work on the car. A mechanic drove the car into the workshop. There seemed to be nothing wrong with the car. No error codes were detected. Then the car just stopped. No error codes. Then 3 mechanics got to work. I authorised the fitting of a new Diesel fuel filter, just in case the Shell top grade fuel I bought in Andorra was dirty. The fuel was pulled through by a machine, and the engine re started. The TDC sensor was pulled off, cleaned and replaced. The fuel flow from the diesel tank was checked by removing the feed to the filter and throttling the engine. It was OK. All seemed to be good. So I drove round the industrial estate and back to the garage, and then we set off for our campsite. The cut out happened again and then we set off again (after the 5 minutes rest) and finally the engine cut out on a roundabout. So, we called the RAC European Assistance number.

The car was taken to a garage in Pau, France, by a recovery truck. The garage there said it was working properly. After all, it was driven off the recovery vehicle by their mechanic. No error codes on the OBD11 reader. Your car is working fine, said the mechanic. Just wait, I told the mechanics. A few minutes later, the engine just stopped. The mechanic tried to restart the engine. I said he needed to wait 5-10 minutes, and it will fire up just like normal, and it did.

The above scenario was repeated at a Diesel/Bosch specialist (but, not a proper Land Rover Garage), in Tarbes, near the Pyrenees. They quoted €900 to change the fuel pump and replace the fuel filter. This was changed to €850 when I informed them the Filter was change the day before! Anyway, the fuel pump was changed, and that did not solve the problem (but charged €1200 ish ). Apparently, they also removed and tested the High Pressure fuel pump, and removed and tested the fuel injectors .... ????

So, is anyone out there who can tell me what is wrong with my car, and how to fix it?

On Friday 25th October , my car was repatriated, and is now on my drive.

So, is anyone out there who can tell me what is wrong with my car, and how to fix it?

I would be most grateful for any thoughts on this unsolvable problem. Richard :blub: :bow:
 
That's a strange fault, and will need some live data from all sensors while it's not starting.

However I think you may have also been taken for a ride by the place the replaced the fuel pump for €850. I'm curious as to what pump they changed, if they tested the HP pump?

The pump, other than the HP pump is the tank pump, and it's job is to simply pump fuel from one side of the tank to the other, because there's a hump where the propshaft cuts the saddle shape in the middle. If the tank is over 1/4 full, the transfer pump doesn't actually do anything, as fuel flows over the saddle hump.

You definitely need to get it to an LR specialist, so they can monitor the life data, and find what is failing.

I'd guess at the crankshaft position sensor is likely breaking down when hot, but live data feedback from the sensor will prove that.
 
Nodge68 said:
That's a strange fault, and will need some live data from all sensors while it's not starting.

However I think you may have also been taken for a ride by the place the replaced the fuel pump for €850. I'm curious as to what pump they changed, if they tested the HP pump?

The pump, other than the HP pump is the tank pump, and it's job is to simply pump fuel from one side of the tank to the other, because there's a hump where the propshaft cuts the saddle shape in the middle. If the tank is over 1/4 full, the transfer pump doesn't actually do anything, as fuel flows over the saddle hump.

You definitely need to get it to an LR specialist, so they can monitor the life data, and find what is failing.

I'd guess at the crankshaft position sensor is likely breaking down when hot, but live data feedback from the sensor will prove that.
Click to expand...


HI John.
I would agree with all the above as soon as I read this I thought crankshaft sensor, or its wiring/plug breaking down.
 
Nodge68 said:
That's a strange fault, and will need some live data from all sensors while it's not starting.

However I think you may have also been taken for a ride by the place the replaced the fuel pump for €850. I'm curious as to what pump they changed, if they tested the HP pump?

The pump, other than the HP pump is the tank pump, and it's job is to simply pump fuel from one side of the tank to the other, because there's a hump where the propshaft cuts the saddle shape in the middle. If the tank is over 1/4 full, the transfer pump doesn't actually do anything, as fuel flows over the saddle hump.

You definitely need to get it to an LR specialist, so they can monitor the life data, and find what is failing.

I'd guess at the crankshaft position sensor is likely breaking down when hot, but live data feedback from the sensor will prove that.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you, ARCTIC2. I think I'll get the Crankshaft sensor changed , rather than keep the old one in ! Actually, it was not me who got taken for a ride, it was the RAC, who paid the bill. It was the fuel pump in the fuel tank that was changed. The estimate from the garage in France said that the fuel pump was change, the HP fuel pump was removed and checked, and the 4 fuel injectors were removed and checked. The results of the check were not notified to the RAC or I, so we don't know whether the checks were positive or not. Suffice to say that the bits were sort of reassembled ..... but the car is nor worse off than before the RAC became involved ! Now, it will not start, whereas, before it did start. I shall definitely get the car taken to an LR specialist. Cheers.
 
Hiya all. Well, its now 2 and a half years since my Freelander 2 stopped working. Before I scrap my beautiful car, I'm going to have a last attempt to get it started. Here is a note I recently prepared ...

Freelander 2 Breakdown Description

Prepared : Richard Harker

Date : 30th May 2022
Version 2.0
My car is a Land Rover Freelander 2 HSE TD4 2.2L Auto 2008: 93,429 miles.
First Reg: 30th September 2008
Colour : Metallic Black (Santorini) with Black Leather Seats, Panoramic Sun Roof, Roof Rails, Sat Nav, and Side Steps.
Tyres : 235/60 R18 on original LR Rims.
Engine Code: DW12BTED4

On Monday 26th August 2019, my car broke down, on the road from Lourdes towards Pau, in France. The traffic was slow. The previous day we had journeyed from Andorra to Lourdes across the mountain passes of the Pyrenees. During this part of the Journey, the car gave a little shudder, twice. It was a hot day, 30 deg +. I thought nothing of it.

When the car broke down (the next day), it was simply a case of the engine cutting out, and the car rolling forward to a standstill, with no power steering and no power assisted braking. An immediate attempt to restart the car, at the side of the road failed. After 5 mins, I tried again and the car started as normal and off we drove. Five minutes later, the engine cut out again, and we glided to the side of the road. An immediate attempt to restart the car failed, again. But, a wait of five minutes, and off we drove with the engine sounding quite normal. I decided to drive into the next garage A.S.A.P. We found a Norauto garage (a bit like a Kwik Fit), a few miles down the road. I parked the car near the service bays, and the manager kindly let his engineers work on the car. A mechanic drove the car into the workshop. There seemed to be nothing wrong with the car. No error codes were detected. Then the car just stopped. No error codes. Then 3 mechanics got to work. I authorised the fitting of a new Diesel fuel filter, just in case the Shell top grade fuel I bought in Andorra was dirty. The fuel was pulled through by a machine, and the engine re started. The Camshaft sensor was pulled off, cleaned and replaced. The fuel flow from the diesel tank was checked by removing the feed to the filter and throttling the engine. It was OK. All seemed to be good. So, I drove round the industrial estate and back to the garage, and then we set off for our campsite. The cut out happened again and then we set off again (after the 5 minutes rest) and finally the engine cut out on a roundabout. So, we called the RAC European Assistance number.


The car was taken to a garage in Pau, France, by a recovery truck. The garage there said it was working properly. After all, it was driven off the recovery vehicle by their mechanic. No error codes on the OBD 2 reader. Your car is working fine, said the mechanic. Just wait, I told the mechanics. A few minutes later, the engine just stopped. The mechanic tried to restart the engine. I said he needed to wait 5-10 minutes, and it will fire up just like normal, and it did.


The above scenario was repeated at a Diesel/Bosch specialist (but, not a proper Land Rover Garage), in Tarbes, near the Pyrenees. They quoted €900 to change the fuel pump and replace the fuel filter. This was changed to €850 when I informed them the Filter was changed the day before! Anyway, the fuel pump was changed, and that did not solve the problem (but charged €1200 ish ), the pump they replaced was the one in the fuel tank, which is only used to transfer fuel from the near-side tank to the off-side fuel tank, which is separated but a ‘saddle’ over the prop shaft. Fuel is drawn from the fuel tank to the fuel filter by Vacuum, this being created by an electric ‘Lift’ pump situated under (or in) the High-Pressure Fuel Pump Unit that feeds the Common Rail.


Later, a Land Rover Specialist Garage back in the UK tested the car. They removed and tested the High-Pressure Fuel Pump, the Fuel Rail system, and removed and tested the Fuel Injectors, and did all the usual diagnostics on the car. The above components were all replaced with spare parts on a working Freelander 2 they had. They also checked out the electrics, but to no avail. Finally, after 10 days effort, they called in an Auto Electrical Specialist. So, 4 garages could not get my car to work, and had no idea why. As a last resort, I went to the local LAND ROVER Franchised Main Dealer, who told me that they had no technical equipment to analyse faults on a Freelander 2, and, even worse, no mechanics who had worked on a Freelander 2!

So, is anyone out there who can tell me what is wrong with my car, and how to fix it?

On Friday 25th October, my car was repatriated, and is now on my drive.

I would be most grateful for any thoughts on this unsolvable problem, before I scrap the car.

Richard



Hello Sid. Sadly I have not been able to get the car going. Actually that's not quite true! with the help of a neighbor, who sprayed some COLD START into the intake box, the engine did fire up , until we stopped the spray. So, it does work with 'ether 'as a fuel, but not diesel. I've primed the fuel system, too. My diagnostic reader reports NO error codes. That said, I did a DATA STREAM on the COMMON RAIL Pressure sensor, whilst cranking the engine, and it report a pressure of 0.48 MPa. This I assume is 0.48 Mega Pascals, which is 480 KPa (kilo pascals) of pressure, which is about 5 atmospheres, a high pressure but not as high as it ought to be, which is up to 1200 Atmos, I understand. Maybe I'm getting my knickers in a twist .... and talking rubbish. So, I am thinking that may be there is a leak in the common rail, caused by who knows what - a faulty gasket, a faulty injector ( staying open all the time?) ... this is all a bit out of my depth.

Help!Freelander 2 HSE. Santorini Black. Roof Rack, Running Board, Auto.
 
RHarker said:
No error codes on the OBD 2 reader. Your car is working fine, said the mechanic. Just wait, I told the mechanics. A few minutes later, the engine just stopped. The mechanic tried to restart the engine. I said he needed to wait 5-10 minutes, and it will fire up just like normal, and it did.
Click to expand...

Has the crank sensor been changed?
It's a common fail on these, and sometimes causes the engine to cut out randomly, and doesn't always show any codes.
Mine failed a few weeks ago, when the engine was hot, 80 miles into my journey. I had a spare in the vehicle, and was on my way in 10 minutes.

Sometimes the crank sensor plug causes bad connections, which can also damage the crank sensor.
 
Last edited:
I am totally shocked I found someone with the exact same car and the exact same problem as mine!!!
I also have a 2008 hse santorini black, sunroof, black leather...
And mine is also just shutting down!!
Right now its in a LR service for the third time. Today I spoke to the mechanic (who, I believe, is a good mechanic and an honest person, since the last two visits they didnt charge me anything cause they couldnt find what to repair) and he suggested changing the in tank fuel pump. But, he did tell me he can not promiss this is gonna fix it. It was just his best guess. I agreed anyway but they won't start till friday. So now, thanks to your posts I just found, I'm calling him tomorrow to ask to check the common rail sensor!
I just did some reading on this topic and it looks like my symptoms could lead to this also.
Regarding the crank sensor, they checked mine and confirmed its not the problem, also it would need more time to restart for the sensor to cool down. Mine restarts within 2 mins.
It just started lagging on lower rpm-s on the last drive to the mechanic and did the same when he tested it.
 
sanchi said:
I am totally shocked I found someone with the exact same car and the exact same problem as mine!!!
I also have a 2008 hse santorini black, sunroof, black leather...
And mine is also just shutting down!!
Right now its in a LR service for the third time. Today I spoke to the mechanic (who, I believe, is a good mechanic and an honest person, since the last two visits they didnt charge me anything cause they couldnt find what to repair) and he suggested changing the in tank fuel pump. But, he did tell me he can not promiss this is gonna fix it. It was just his best guess. I agreed anyway but they won't start till friday. So now, thanks to your posts I just found, I'm calling him tomorrow to ask to check the common rail sensor!
I just did some reading on this topic and it looks like my symptoms could lead to this also.
Regarding the crank sensor, they checked mine and confirmed its not the problem, also it would need more time to restart for the sensor to cool down. Mine restarts within 2 mins.
It just started lagging on lower rpm-s on the last drive to the mechanic and did the same when he tested it.
Click to expand...
I think you maybe getting the cam sensor mixed up with the crank sensor, it's the cam sensor that would need to cool down if that was failing,
 
I dont know about the crank sensor.. My car is still able to start quite quickly after shutting down and from all the reading I did, I see that usually isnt the case. Also, the first time it happenned, the car was still cold, and the second time it was hot. Both times started the engine after 2 mins max.
I have another hint, it did show the code when they checked after the second time which was bank 2 injector multiple error (or something similar). They checked the injectors, didnt find anything wrong, brought some computer specialist, didnt find anything.. They checked some connector inside the cabin (somewhere on the drivers left leg side), didnt find anything...
But fuel pressure sensor and even more it's harness and plug are something worth checking. It sounds to me like its something that could be messing with the car and it's injectors, but not have it completely unable to start. I read a lot of stuff about it yesterday and seems like people with similar problems like ours managed to fix them by changing the harness and plug.
I'll suggest it to the mechanic today and let you know of his response
 
RHarker said:
Hiya all. Well, its now 2 and a half years since my Freelander 2 stopped working. Before I scrap my beautiful car, I'm going to have a last attempt to get it started. Here is a note I recently prepared ...

Freelander 2 Breakdown Description

Prepared : Richard Harker

Date : 30th May 2022
Version 2.0
My car is a Land Rover Freelander 2 HSE TD4 2.2L Auto 2008: 93,429 miles.
First Reg: 30th September 2008
Colour : Metallic Black (Santorini) with Black Leather Seats, Panoramic Sun Roof, Roof Rails, Sat Nav, and Side Steps.
Tyres : 235/60 R18 on original LR Rims.
Engine Code: DW12BTED4

On Monday 26th August 2019, my car broke down, on the road from Lourdes towards Pau, in France. The traffic was slow. The previous day we had journeyed from Andorra to Lourdes across the mountain passes of the Pyrenees. During this part of the Journey, the car gave a little shudder, twice. It was a hot day, 30 deg +. I thought nothing of it.

When the car broke down (the next day), it was simply a case of the engine cutting out, and the car rolling forward to a standstill, with no power steering and no power assisted braking. An immediate attempt to restart the car, at the side of the road failed. After 5 mins, I tried again and the car started as normal and off we drove. Five minutes later, the engine cut out again, and we glided to the side of the road. An immediate attempt to restart the car failed, again. But, a wait of five minutes, and off we drove with the engine sounding quite normal. I decided to drive into the next garage A.S.A.P. We found a Norauto garage (a bit like a Kwik Fit), a few miles down the road. I parked the car near the service bays, and the manager kindly let his engineers work on the car. A mechanic drove the car into the workshop. There seemed to be nothing wrong with the car. No error codes were detected. Then the car just stopped. No error codes. Then 3 mechanics got to work. I authorised the fitting of a new Diesel fuel filter, just in case the Shell top grade fuel I bought in Andorra was dirty. The fuel was pulled through by a machine, and the engine re started. The Camshaft sensor was pulled off, cleaned and replaced. The fuel flow from the diesel tank was checked by removing the feed to the filter and throttling the engine. It was OK. All seemed to be good. So, I drove round the industrial estate and back to the garage, and then we set off for our campsite. The cut out happened again and then we set off again (after the 5 minutes rest) and finally the engine cut out on a roundabout. So, we called the RAC European Assistance number.


The car was taken to a garage in Pau, France, by a recovery truck. The garage there said it was working properly. After all, it was driven off the recovery vehicle by their mechanic. No error codes on the OBD 2 reader. Your car is working fine, said the mechanic. Just wait, I told the mechanics. A few minutes later, the engine just stopped. The mechanic tried to restart the engine. I said he needed to wait 5-10 minutes, and it will fire up just like normal, and it did.


The above scenario was repeated at a Diesel/Bosch specialist (but, not a proper Land Rover Garage), in Tarbes, near the Pyrenees. They quoted €900 to change the fuel pump and replace the fuel filter. This was changed to €850 when I informed them the Filter was changed the day before! Anyway, the fuel pump was changed, and that did not solve the problem (but charged €1200 ish ), the pump they replaced was the one in the fuel tank, which is only used to transfer fuel from the near-side tank to the off-side fuel tank, which is separated but a ‘saddle’ over the prop shaft. Fuel is drawn from the fuel tank to the fuel filter by Vacuum, this being created by an electric ‘Lift’ pump situated under (or in) the High-Pressure Fuel Pump Unit that feeds the Common Rail.


Later, a Land Rover Specialist Garage back in the UK tested the car. They removed and tested the High-Pressure Fuel Pump, the Fuel Rail system, and removed and tested the Fuel Injectors, and did all the usual diagnostics on the car. The above components were all replaced with spare parts on a working Freelander 2 they had. They also checked out the electrics, but to no avail. Finally, after 10 days effort, they called in an Auto Electrical Specialist. So, 4 garages could not get my car to work, and had no idea why. As a last resort, I went to the local LAND ROVER Franchised Main Dealer, who told me that they had no technical equipment to analyse faults on a Freelander 2, and, even worse, no mechanics who had worked on a Freelander 2!

So, is anyone out there who can tell me what is wrong with my car, and how to fix it?

On Friday 25th October, my car was repatriated, and is now on my drive.

I would be most grateful for any thoughts on this unsolvable problem, before I scrap the car.

Richard



Hello Sid. Sadly I have not been able to get the car going. Actually that's not quite true! with the help of a neighbor, who sprayed some COLD START into the intake box, the engine did fire up , until we stopped the spray. So, it does work with 'ether 'as a fuel, but not diesel. I've primed the fuel system, too. My diagnostic reader reports NO error codes. That said, I did a DATA STREAM on the COMMON RAIL Pressure sensor, whilst cranking the engine, and it report a pressure of 0.48 MPa. This I assume is 0.48 Mega Pascals, which is 480 KPa (kilo pascals) of pressure, which is about 5 atmospheres, a high pressure but not as high as it ought to be, which is up to 1200 Atmos, I understand. Maybe I'm getting my knickers in a twist .... and talking rubbish. So, I am thinking that may be there is a leak in the common rail, caused by who knows what - a faulty gasket, a faulty injector ( staying open all the time?) ... this is all a bit out of my depth.

Help!Freelander 2 HSE. Santorini Black. Roof Rack, Running Board, Auto.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking if thete were any leaks, common rail or injector, you would probably be able to smell it. All my hopes are still in the fuel pressure sensor and it's harness and plug. Will let you know if my mechanic accepts it as a theory
 
Well, sorry to report, just spoke to my mechanic, and told me that they already checked the fuel rail sensor, harnes and plug, also the regulator and unfortunately NO, that is NOT the problem. Started working on changing the in tank fuel pump so I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope in my case this fixes the problem
 
sanchi said:
Regarding the crank sensor, they checked mine and confirmed its not the problem, also it would need more time to restart for the sensor to cool down. Mine restarts within 2 mins.
Click to expand...

Change it.
For the £25 it costs, it's stupid not too, especially as there's no way to test it.
Also be aware that the connection inside the crank sensor plug sometimes fails, so even if the sensor is ok, the plug might not be.
It's difficult to get new plugs too, I had to order a replacement from the USA.

It's unlikely to be the tank pump, unless it only stops running when the fuel level drops to about ¼ on the gauge. The tank pump simply pumps fuel from one side of the tank to the other, it doesn't pump fuel to the engine.
 
Nodge68 said:
Change it.
For the £25 it costs, it's stupid not too, especially as there's no way to test it.
Also be aware that the connection inside the crank sensor plug sometimes fails, so even if the sensor is ok, the plug might not be.
It's difficult to get new plugs too, I had to order a replacement from the USA.

It's unlikely to be the tank pump, unless it only stops running when the fuel level drops to about ¼ on the gauge. The tank pump simply pumps fuel from one side of the tank to the other, it doesn't pump fuel to the engine.
Click to expand...
I will tell him that I want it changed anyway. Now, Im trying to remember how much fuel I had on the first occasion and I think it was just under half a tank. After I restarted it, it ran totally fine, didnt lag or stall and they didnt get any error codes. I didn't refill and than it happened the second time on quarter of a tank. After that, had issues while driving on low rpms, car shuddering and struggling. When the mechanic drove it, as the fuel was getting lower it shut down two or three times and also struggled on lower rpms.
One more thing, as I started the ac on one occasion, the fuel consumption was raising from 13 to 16 in seconds. I turn off the ac and it slowly went down to 13. Maybe it's a hint, my mechanic thinks it's not totally normal behaviour.
Anyway, I'll insist on the crank sensor and its plug, even though he said in his experience these symptoms are not likely to be the crank
 
sanchi said:
When the mechanic drove it, as the fuel was getting lower it shut down two or three times and also struggled on lower rpms.
Click to expand...
If it's not running right when the fuel level is low, then this points to the transfer pump in the tank.
 
My sister had pretty much the same thing in her 2006 Freelander 1. total, instant cut out and then start again after a while. No garage could find the fault or fix it. I did a bit of research and changed the high pressure fuel sensor relay. I think from memory the recommendation is to change both the relay and the sensor but I did the relay first to see if it solved the problem. It did. It was a known fault and Land Rover issue a replacement kit.

I have no idea whether the system is the same on the freelander 2, but worth checking.
 
Hi all,
Thank you everyone for trying to help! I have some new developments from yesterday. Hope Richard who started this thread is also reading!
After replacing the fuel pump, the car actually got worse, then, they took time to try one sensor after another (crank, cam, some other stuff, dont remember exactly) with the working ones from another car, none of it fixed the issue. They ordered complete rail sensor, harness etc from elsewhere and it was due to arrive tomorrow. In the meantime, the mechanic started on getting to the main ecu, unscrewing the wipers, cause this was the next step if the fp sensor didnt work, taking the ecu out and sending it to a specialist. So, as he reached it, he found that one of its three plugs was really dirty. Cleaned it, sprayed it, tried the car and it worked totally fine! Now, I didnt take the car yet, suggested they run it again tomorrow in different conditions, cold, hot, slow, fast, short, long, before I take it. But Im really hoping this was an actual fix!
Could it be if the ecu has a bad connection, it only gets worse once you start changing parts and thats why cars start showing more and more symptoms, cutting out more frequently, harder to start etc? I'll let you all know after tomorrow if this has fixed all the problems
 
Hello! Here's some new info on my car!
It's been 3 days since I took the car back and it's still working fine!
So, what the mechanic did is unplug the ECU, found that one of three connectors was a bit dirty, cleaned it, sprayed it and the car worked immediately. I still kept the new fuel pump cause the car has a lot of mileage anyway.
Yesterday I did the yearly check up for registration, where they check emissions and all that other stuff and I passed.
I am still a bit worried while driving, listening to the sound of the engine, trying to figure out if there are any issues and it might be the case it's a bit slower on the gas going uphill. I will keep driving it and see how it goes. But my experience might help someone with similar issues
 
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