Hi All,

I am doing some research for a YouTube video I am making as I have noticed some sellers more recently seem to be trying to sell converted hard top vans as genuine CSW's, but in reality are often pretty crudely converted.

Obviously, as you do tend to pay a bit of a premium for the genuine CSW's and I hate seeing people been ripped off. My video was just going to look at a few areas in how to hopefully try and spot the genuine thing on sites like eBay and Auto Trader.

I would assume first and foremost would be the Vin number if you can get hold of that before purchase and to check that against what's registered. Is there anything in particular about Station Wagon vins which look different to normal hard top defender ones?

Then I would suggest to check reg to see if it comes back as car registered. Although, I have recently heard there were mistakes made by LR & DVLA in regards to registration type, so this is not always the case for SW's and CSW's.

I have a few other areas which I will be talking about in the video of course regarding features on the vehicles themselves. Such as, rear seat belt mounts through the Cross member, extra front wheel arch liners, interior carpeting, cloth seats, radio, a roof liner, body colour coding etc.


I am struggling on a few points though. It is my current assumption that in the 90 CSW in the TDI era it only ever had the option of 4x folding sideways seats in the back and that simple bench seats for the 90 CSW wagon were never an option? It seems that the sideways Bench seats were only found in the back portion of 110 CSW to make it a 12 seater? Is this correct? I have seen some advertised as 90 CSW with Bench seats only, which does not seem to be quite right to me.

Also

Can anyone tell me the various cloth trims which were used in the 1990s Tdi Defender era?

So far I have
Moorland Cloth Trim
Rayleigh Cloth Trim.

I do believe there might be at least one other though, but finding the name of the pattern I am drawing a blank.

Thanks

Ryan

ryan_1993 said:

Moorland Cloth Trim
Rayleigh Cloth Trim.

Click to expand...

Can you post an image of these cloths please. I have a 110 CSW and don’t know if either of those are the option I have. Also, did they do different cloth options?

As someone who is currently looking to do exactly what you are complaining people are doing to miss-sell people I would be interested in the differences you are referring to. However from your post are you just referring to 90's? I am looking at doing a rear body swap on a 110? I would also say especially with older vehicle they are so easy to modify, update with later parts, and change from original you should be buying on quality and condition not what it originally was.

ryan_1993 said:

Then I would suggest to check reg to see if it comes back as car registered. Although, I have recently heard there were mistakes made by LR & DVLA in regards to registration type, so this is not always the case for SW's and CSW's.

Click to expand...

You are correct that this is not a reliable way of determining if it was an SW or not, this came up a lot with the introduction of LEZ etc. as "estate" were exempt but "utility" was not however the same vehicle could be registered as either from Land rover.

ryan_1993 said:

Such as, rear seat belt mounts through the Cross member, extra front wheel arch liners, interior carpeting, cloth seats, radio, a roof liner, body colour coding etc.

Click to expand...

I would also caveat the above with everything in a defedner is so easy to swap and change that there is no guarantee that the above is a marker. My 110 has cloth seats, radio, full roof lining, and had carpeting and that is a hardtop. My 90 which was a hardtop and I have fitted van sides to has the correct individual folding rear seats and seatbelt bars. I would also be wary about using carpet as a marker in general especially on older vehicles. I have fitted later tdci rubber covers to the interior on my '89 110, and the first thing I am going to do to the station wagon body I will be fitting is removing all the carpet and fitting rubber matting.

What is the extra front arch liners you refer to? Is body colour coding just painted arch spats?

doriz said:

Can you post an image of these cloths please. I have a 110 CSW and don’t know if either of those are the option I have. Also, did they do different cloth options?

Click to expand...

Having just looked them up I am unconvinced my donor station wagon has either of these two either.

doriz said:

Can you post an image of these cloths please. I have a 110 CSW and don’t know if either of those are the option I have. Also, did they do different cloth options?

Click to expand...

Yes Sure here you

So the two I know of from the TDI era are...

Rayleigh Cloth


Moorland Cloth


Then the TD5 era got the Techno Cloth which looks a bit like a checker plate pattern.

dag019 said:

Having just looked them up I am unconvinced my donor station wagon has either of these two either.

Click to expand...

Now posted

Techno cloth is the much more easier cloth option to find nowadays as its still being made today, it is from the TD5 era rather than TDI era

dag019 said:

As someone who is currently looking to do exactly what you are complaining people are doing to miss-sell people I would be interested in the differences you are referring to. However from your post are you just referring to 90's? I am looking at doing a rear body swap on a 110? I would also say especially with older vehicle they are so easy to modify, update with later parts, and change from original you should be buying on quality and condition not what it originally was.


You are correct that this is not a reliable way of determining if it was an SW or not, this came up a lot with the introduction of LEZ etc. as "estate" were exempt but "utility" was not however the same vehicle could be registered as either from Land rover.


I would also caveat the above with everything in a defedner is so easy to swap and change that there is no guarantee that the above is a marker. My 110 has cloth seats, radio, full roof lining, and had carpeting and that is a hardtop. My 90 which was a hardtop and I have fitted van sides to has the correct individual folding rear seats and seatbelt bars. I would also be wary about using carpet as a marker in general especially on older vehicles. I have fitted later tdci rubber covers to the interior on my '89 110, and the first thing I am going to do to the station wagon body I will be fitting is removing all the carpet and fitting rubber matting.

What is the extra front arch liners you refer to? Is body colour coding just painted arch spats?

Click to expand...

There are few a lot of differences I have found.

The later 1990s Station Wagons from the era seem to all have a 36 spline steering arrangement whereas commercials are
mostly all 48,


And yes to your third point, I understand with defenders being so modular everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt too, that's why I am going to be careful in the video and will offer a warning too that it won't always be the case. It was just going to be a few points that people who want a Defender CSW can look out for in trying to spot the real thing more than anything.

It seems that proper station wagons have a full extra plastic liner in the front wheel arches, my 90 station wagon has it and I have seen others fitted with it too, but none of the hardtops I have seen ever have this plastic lining. It covers more of the outrigger portion of the wheel arch.

ryan_1993 said:

The later 1990s Station Wagons from the era seem to all have a 36 spline steering arrangement whereas commercials are
mostly all 48,

Click to expand...

I don't do later stuff mine are all late 80's with early 90's 200tdi engines. The td5 90 is an exception but was a commercial that I have converted to a "station wagon"

ryan_1993 said:

It seems that proper station wagons have a full extra plastic liner in the front wheel arches, my 90 station wagon has it and I have seen others fitted with it too, but none of the hardtops I have seen ever have this plastic lining. It covers more of the outrigger portion of the wheel arch.

Click to expand...

I will have a look at my '88 110 station wagon donor and see what is fitted to that as it is currently a very rusty but complete and fairly original vehicle (damp carpet included!). I had just assumed it was the same as my '89 hardtop.

Had to peel back the ducks back seat cover, but there she is, luxury cloth.

Would anyone be able to advise on these points at all it would be appreciated I have been looking online, but have drawn a blank

I am struggling on a few points though. It is my current assumption that in the 90 CSW in the TDI era it only ever had the option of 4x folding sideways seats in the back and that simple bench seats for the 90 CSW wagon were never an option? It seems that the sideways Bench seats were only found in the back portion of 110 CSW to make it a 12 seater? Is this correct? I have seen some advertised as 90 CSW with Bench seats only, which does not seem to be quite right to me.

Also

Can anyone tell me the various cloth trims which were used in the 1990s Tdi Defender era?

So far I have
Moorland Cloth Trim
Rayleigh Cloth Trim.

doriz said:

Had to peel back the ducks back seat cover, but there she is, luxury cloth.
View attachment 304895

Click to expand...

Appears to be moorland trim

I've got a 1990 110CSW with Neptune grey cloth. Like moorland but much smaller pattern