Johnnyd

New Member
My Freelander 1 is 56 plate, approx. 75,000 miles. Last year, I took it to a well-known National Tyre Chain to have my winter tyres removed; and summer ones put on. I had two (old) summer ones in hand; and needed two new.

The National Tyre Chain fitted the two new tyres to the front axle. This I can prove as 1. The car was serviced the following day and depths were recorded (although the issue wasn’t noticed) and 2. I photographed them in situ five days later (when I noticed).

The day after the service, my wife drove to Devon (400m round trip) and complained about tyre noise at speed. When she returned, I drove it and the noise was like being in a Lancaster bomber.

Quickly became apparent that this was a result of the new tyres being on the front. I switched them all round; and much driveability was restored. There was, however, a grinding/ whining noise and – before I had a chance to have it properly inspected – the ‘front diff’ (according to the RAC man) failed. And the issue was confirmed in the workshop as an IRD failure.

I have been in correspondence the National Tyre Chain for nearly a year; and getting nowhere – largely because they barely reply or engage. Two letters and an email from them in 12 months, and I am now inclined to sue....

Latest situation is:

1. They deny fitting the new tyres to the front – not a leg to stand on there;
2. They deny that new tyres on the front can bring about IRD failure;
3. They say that the radii difference between the NSR and OSR tyres (see below) could have ‘wound up’ the ‘transfer box’ to failure point;
4. And as they weren’t the last garage to work on it, they are not responsible.

A more ‘cake and eat it’ denial of responsibility I can’t imagine.

As above, I can show they put the new tyres on the front; but I can’t prove it causes IRD failure – they are demanding official Land Rover documentation that it does.

I can find lots of garage sites that say it causes this problem. I can find lots of forums that say it does. I’ve got owners and workshop manuals stating ‘best/ new to rear’ when fitting tyres.

But not one piece of LR paperwork saying why new tyres shouldn’t go on the front; and what might happen if you do.

Is there one single bit of official LR Freelander paperwork – manual, guide, technical review, memoranda – I can wave under their noses to show that this error may result in this fault?

Otherwise, it’s all just hearsay...

And for info: the tyre measurements after their fitting were: OSF 888; NSF 878; OSR 444; NSR 777. Spare was 885.

Cheers,

Johnny.
 
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Why in the hell would new tyres on the front cause the IRD to fail?

If this is such a common issue, which by the sounds of it it is, then why didn't you make the tyre garage aware of it? If you were not aware of it and you're the one who actually owns the car then how can you expect a national tyre garage to be aware of it? They're not land rover specialists.

You went to have two old tyres and two new tyres fitted. As is common practice in almost every single tyre place I know they put the new ones on the front as these wear the quickest.

No fault on their part I say
 
Why in the hell would new tyres on the front cause the IRD to fail?

It can. This is pretty well known.
Loads about it on here so no need to repeat.

If this is such a common issue, which by the sounds of it it is, then why didn't you make the tyre garage aware of it? If you were not aware of it and you're the one who actually owns the car then how can you expect a national tyre garage to be aware of it? They're not land rover specialists.

Very good point.
 
Why in the hell would new tyres on the front cause the IRD to fail?

If this is such a common issue, which by the sounds of it it is, then why didn't you make the tyre garage aware of it? If you were not aware of it and you're the one who actually owns the car then how can you expect a national tyre garage to be aware of it? They're not land rover specialists.

You went to have two old tyres and two new tyres fitted. As is common practice in almost every single tyre place I know they put the new ones on the front as these wear the quickest.

No fault on their part I say

1. Apparently larger radii tyres on the front cause problems because of the way the IRD distributes power differently front and back.

2. They are a specialist - a wheel and tyre expert; I'm a layman relying on their expertise. It's what professionals are for...

3. LR Freelander workshop manual states: "CAUTION: If new tyres are to be fitted, ensure that they are fitted to the rear axle only or to both front and rear axles. DO NOT fit new tyres to front axle only".

As I say, they're the specialist - and with over 500,000 1s sold - you would entirely reasonably expect them to be on top of this car's peculiarities. It's what professionals are for...

Cheers,

Johnny.
 
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Thanks for your input - appreciated.

Back to the point: I can show they put the new tyres on the front; but I can’t prove it causes IRD failure.

I can find lots of garage sites that say it causes this problem. I can find lots of forums that say it does. I’ve got owners and workshop manuals stating ‘best/ new to rear’ when fitting tyres.

But not one piece of LR paperwork saying why new tyres shouldn’t go on the front; and what might happen if you do.

Is there one single bit of official LR Freelander paperwork – manual, guide, technical review, memoranda – to that effect available?

Cheers,

Johnny.
 
My owners manual says and I quote -

"Ideally,tyres should be replaced as sets of four,but if this is not possible,replace the tyres as axle sets. When replacing tyres in axle sets,always fit the new tyres to the rear axle".

This info might go for you or it might go against you - good luck.
 
Thanks for that: it's an 'official' LR document about putting new tyres on the front - against manual advice - and what happens if you do I'm trying to locate.

Cheers,

Johnny.
 
If I read this correctly, all this happened a year ago. The tyre company did as you requested, how can you possibly blame the tyre company? I would forget it, move on and enjoy life ;)
 
If I read this correctly, all this happened a year ago. The tyre company did as you requested, how can you possibly blame the tyre company? I would forget it, move on and enjoy life ;)

I wish I could...

Their work - as automotive professionals - was negligent. Lay people are entitled, legally, to rely on the competence and expertise of professionals. The Freelander is the best-selling 4x4 in the UK ever (I believe): with over 540,000 units of the 1 sold. It is reasonable to expect them to be familiar with it; and rely on them to get it right.

Their negligence cost me around £1500.

Their negligence caused me epic inconvenience at the time.

As for it happening a year ago, it's taken me this long to get a substantive response from them.

I wish I could move on...

Thanks for the thought mind.

Cheers,

Johnny.
 
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I wish I could...

Their work - as automotive professionals - was negligent. Lay people are entitled, legally, to rely on the competence and expertise of professionals.

Their negligence cost me around £1500.

Their negligence caused me epic inconvenience at the time.

As for it happening a year ago, it's taken me this long to get a substantive response from them.

I wish I could move on...

Thanks for the thought mind.

Cheers,

Johnny.

I'm failing to see how they were negligent. If they aren't made aware of faults in vehicles then how can they know? You can't expect them to employ a man who sits and looks up every common fault of every single vehicle that they might get in. They fit tyres, that's what they do. I wouldn't use the word professionals but that's something else different entirely. As I said before if you go to almost anywhere and ask them to fit two new tyres and two old tyres, unless you specify where you want them to put them then they will put the new tyres on the front as they do with almost every single front wheel drive car. **** happens.
 
I'm failing to see how they were negligent. If they aren't made aware of faults in vehicles then how can they know? You can't expect them to employ a man who sits and looks up every common fault of every single vehicle that they might get in. They fit tyres, that's what they do. I wouldn't use the word professionals but that's something else different entirely. As I said before if you go to almost anywhere and ask them to fit two new tyres and two old tyres, unless you specify where you want them to put them then they will put the new tyres on the front as they do with almost every single front wheel drive car. **** happens.

The Freelander is the best-selling 4x4 in the UK ever (I believe): with over 540,000 units of the 1 sold. It is reasonable to expect them to be familiar with it; and rely on them to get it right.

They also offer MoT, service, exhausts and brakes - do they guess at that as well? Does they car owner have to tell them how to do those too?

In the particular, they only had to read the tyre pages in the manuals...not an epic requirement of them, being tyre (and MoT, service, exhausts and brakes) people an' all.

Cheers,

JD.
 
Remember that these people are fitters, not mechanics in any shape or form. They get shown how to use some equipment and that's about it. I tend to avoid places such as national, kwik fit etc...for this very reason as they haven't a bloody clue. If i need my tyres done I go to a wee independent tyre place, I tell them exactly what I want and I stand and watch them doing it. I know of faults, problems or anything they should know about my vehicle and I make them aware of it, for instance the fact that I've got tubes in as some places don't know anything about tubes. In my opinion the driver and owner should make them aware of any problems, not just leave their car there and expect them to know everything that could possibly be wrong with it
 
As I said before if you go to almost anywhere and ask them to fit two new tyres and two old tyres, unless you specify where you want them to put them then they will put the new tyres on the front as they do with almost every single front wheel drive car.

Seems not. This from their web site:

"...we do not recommend tyre rotation and we do recommend fitting your best tyres at the rear of the vehicle. If you are replacing a single tyre then this should be paired with the rear with the tyre having the most tread depth".

When I had the old two replaced some months later, a. n. other National Tyre Chain actually used the phrase "best to rear" to me.

So they got the fitting wrong, by their own - and their competitors - standards.

It is established that in the case of the Freelander getting it wrong can wreck the IRD and the VCU.

I just need a Land Rover headed bit of paper that says so...

Cheers,

JD.
 
The Freelander is the best-selling 4x4 in the UK ever (I believe): with over 540,000 units of the 1 sold. It is reasonable to expect them to be familiar with it; and rely on them to get it right.

JD.

It may be the best selling 4x4...but it doesn't compare numbers-wise with most other makes of car.
It may be "reasonable" to you... as a landy owner... to expect them to know what the Freelander manual says, but I am damn sure a Mondeo owner, a Corsa owner, a whatever-other-make-or-model-you-care-to-name owner wouldn't think it reasonable. :crazy:
The fact that you are hurting - financially and any other way - doesn't make them liable. And the very fact that you haven't been able to track down a definitive statement to the effect that new tyres MUST be fitted to the front bears this out. The fact of another garage having worked on the car... and you changing things round yourselves means that you will never win. Move on...
:)
 
You cocked it up.... To start with you bought a **** gaylander then you didn't check your owners manual....had you bought a decent vehicle to start with there would be no problem

You can't expect to sue a company when they did what you asked. Sell the gaylander and but a real car or stop bitching and trying to shift the blame
 

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