It was never going to be the same as the 'old' defender, technically and it has to keep with modern times.

Come on people, how many new or modern vehicles with this level of off road capabilty can be easily 'fixed in the field', not many I can assure you. Reliabilty, this remains to be seen.

Personally, I quite like it but can't afford it.
 
I've been seeing these for months going up and down the A5 in the not at all disguised camo. Personally I quite like the evolution, although it does look like a bit of all current LR products thrown in a mixer. I will certainly never be in the position to buy one but then I wouldn't buy an 'old' defender either.
 
potus said:
It was never going to be the same as the 'old' defender, technically and it has to keep with modern times.
Come on people, how many new or modern vehicles with this level of off road capabilty can be easily 'fixed in the field', not many I can assure you. Reliabilty, this remains to be seen.
Personally, I quite like it but can't afford it.
Click to expand...

All very fair points, and for the most part I agree. But the fact that no one is making a fix-in-the-field farm/overland vehicle does not mean no one can, and does mean there is a huge gap in the market. I was hoping that they would have been able to make a proper utility version without the frills and without any unnecessary electronics. The engines need to be compliant with current and forecast regs and that requires some ECU management, but coil suspension doesn't, a manual g'box doesn't, the interior doesn't other than a straightforward sound system. If they could have made a true, base spec version then they would have remained true to LR heritage. Yes, the cost of effectively running two production lines would have required significant investment, but if they got the price right they would sell well all over the world, and not just in the developed world.
 
toss pot **** ****tards. Who the **** were they listening too? Lets turn the meat two veg box on wheels into a electronic gadget fest. I was hoping for a dumb version with minimal electronics that would survive having a bag of spanners thrown at it, this ****e is a factory recall on wheels. An absolute waste of energy.
 
The thing is they will never make a car like the defender again well not landrover but 85 ecus someones having a ****ing laught. You ever tried to connect to the ecu to failed 10 times then it connects image 85. I wonder does it have a transfer box? Or is it something like the freelander 2? Has it got low range?? Anyone know?
 
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tacr2man said:
You've just made the main point of this failure on the part of landRover , its a replacement for a Forrester , not a defender .
Click to expand...

No, I did not. I've been looking to replace my Forester, not the Subaru Forester.

I also have a set of purchase criteria that the new Defender has, criteria that I've been searching for, for some considerable time. It's a shame that when a new/replacement model is launched to market it is so heavily ridiculed. One can only imagine the mammoth task LR have had developing a new C21st Defender to replace one of the iconic of British vehicles. I'm nearing the end of reading The Land Rover Story. The written content in the middle to end of book is not what I was expecting as it details some of the remarkable battles the varying owners and management teams struggled with maintaining the Defender and even more so the complexities of continued funding and new model releases: in this highly competitive market LR with the new Defender appear to have achieved their objective. The new Defender may be Marmite to some, and being produced in Slovakia anathema to others, but it is the new Defender. It will grow on us and I for one hope it is a great vehicle and hugely successful.
 
v8250 said:
No, I did not. I've been looking to replace my Forester, not the Subaru Forester.

I also have a set of purchase criteria that the new Defender has, criteria that I've been searching for, for some considerable time. It's a shame that when a new/replacement model is launched to market it is so heavily ridiculed. One can only imagine the mammoth task LR have had developing a new C21st Defender to replace one of the iconic of British vehicles. I'm nearing the end of reading The Land Rover Story. The written content in the middle to end of book is not what I was expecting as it details some of the remarkable battles the varying owners and management teams struggled with maintaining the Defender and even more so the complexities of continued funding and new model releases: in this highly competitive market LR with the new Defender appear to have achieved their objective. The new Defender may be Marmite to some, and being produced in Slovakia anathema to others, but it is the new Defender. It will grow on us and I for one hope it is a great vehicle and hugely successful.
Click to expand...
Yes I respect you view that's your option. My personal opinion is it should have never been called defender cause it not. 85 ecus 85 someone been smoking something body on frame is still used by Toyota. This is the new pc correct landrover pretender it no dought will be nice to drive fast go over things leather inside ect. This everthing a defenders not and 85 ecus I cant get over that. It the range rover vogue on steroids or something on these lines. It's sad the demise of a icon they should have left it dead and let the remaining run until they run out of parts 85 ecus
 
I like it, but I think they should do a very basic model. The days of buying any vehicle that you can repair in a field with minimal tools are long gone, the last defender that you could do this with was the 300tdi
 
To be fair to landrover the new defender has to sell in greater numbers, and have wider appeal than the old one. The old defender never made them much money compared to the discovery and freelander.
 
For every one of us on here that values simplicity and easy to fix design, there are several who can afford not to worry about that and pay the dealer to sort out any issues. These are the customers JLR are now courting. They are no longer interested in farmers and thier like. They have a new business model and we aren't part of it. We just need to accept it. JLR are quite happy to let the likes of Toyota keep the muddy end of the market. You only have to look at the main dealers, their premises are akin to the old Rolls Royce and Bentley dealerships, the last thing they want is beaten up vehicles in their workshop. I think a lot of us feel betrayed because we have stuck with the marque for years and helped Landrover attain their reputation for superior 4x4's. The King is dead, long live the King.

Col
 
Si Click said:
All very fair points, and for the most part I agree. But the fact that no one is making a fix-in-the-field farm/overland vehicle does not mean no one can, and does mean there is a huge gap in the market. I was hoping that they would have been able to make a proper utility version without the frills and without any unnecessary electronics. The engines need to be compliant with current and forecast regs and that requires some ECU management, but coil suspension doesn't, a manual g'box doesn't, the interior doesn't other than a straightforward sound system. If they could have made a true, base spec version then they would have remained true to LR heritage. Yes, the cost of effectively running two production lines would have required significant investment, but if they got the price right they would sell well all over the world, and not just in the developed world.
Click to expand...
It's not two production lines, it's just a case of not putting too much tech on one model. Which would actually save JLR some money.
 
Landrover will never again release something simple without at least 10-20 computers, rounded soft corners and crumply bits. They are restrained by countless regulations, political demand and sales demand to produce what they have. If anyone wants a Defender as they used to be you need to refurbish an older one back to new standard!

However, I'm undecided on the new model but they reference they have not yet released a 'commercial' version which may be the more no-thrills simple version we all think about. The model range we see now is to appeal the rich Chelsea Tractor market which fund Landrover. It seems odd the starting price for the current base model is £45k but their smallest engine is a diesel at about 200hp and 35mpg. Why does a basic defender need that, 120-150hp with a higher mpg would suit a wider market. Maybe that's what will come with the commercial version with coil springs and a basic open rear diff.
 
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Huddy84 said:
Landrover will never again release something simple without at least 10-20 computers, rounded soft corners and crumply bits. They are restrained by countless regulations, political demand and sales demand to produce what they have. If anyone wants a Defender as they used to be you need to refurbish an older one back to new standard!

However, I'm undecided on the new model but they reference they have not yet released a 'commercial' version which may be the more no-thrills simple version we all think about. The model range we see now is to appeal the rich Chelsea Tractor market which fund Landrover. It seems odd the starting price for the current base model is £45k but their smallest engine is a diesel at about 200hp and 35mpg. Why does a basic defender need that, 120-150hp with a higher mpg would suit a wider market. Maybe that's what will come with the commercial version with coil springs and a basic open rear diff.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, overpowered for general use. As for the numerous control boxes and soft corners, other manufacturers are still fielding vehicles with a more utilitarian look to them and are having no issues meeting regulations, I think JLR have become obsessed with their luxury car branding. In some respects the utilitarian / simple / versatile ideal no longer sits well in their business, Tata should have farmed off the Defender to another company
 
JimS said:
I tend to agree, overpowered for general use. As for the numerous control boxes and soft corners, other manufacturers are still fielding vehicles with a more utilitarian look to them and are having no issues meeting regulations, I think JLR have become obsessed with their luxury car branding. In some respects the utilitarian / simple / versatile ideal no longer sits well in their business, Tata should have farmed off the Defender to another company
Click to expand...
It's a shame Santana are not still around. They could have kept on with the LR MK4, or the vehicle that Is currently being made in Iran, whatever they call it.
 
Huddy84 said:
However, I'm undecided on the new model but they reference they have not yet released a 'commercial' version which may be the more no-thrills simple version we all think about.
Click to expand...

Actually they have announced a commercial version and it is just a 90 with a hard load space, solid sides and steel wheels.
defender-commercial-093.jpg
 
Pappasmurf said:
So still got 84 ecus
Click to expand...

Yup and a price tag to match. Why the could not have made a version with something like a Tdci engine, simple coil springs and a conventional dash is beyond me. I agree with Huddy84 that they would struggle to build a new vehicle with less than about 10 ECUs, but they could be ruggedised, line replaceable units with easy access.
While I am having a whinge, with 84 ECUs why is one of them not a built in, dedicated diagnostic with a readout on that gucci led display? That would at least have been a passing nod at assisting remote maintenance.
 
The thing is, LR didn't sell enough of the original Defender and needed to upgrade, improve or call it what you will, to sell more vehicles to a wider market.

They are no longer interested in selling a few trucks to the local farmer.

Still like the new Defender and still can't afford one....:D
 
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