D

Diplodicus

New Member
Hi, I uploaded a video to YouTube this morning. To view it, go to YouTube then search for TEGRAROTOR. The video is pretty self-explanatory, but the following comments might be relevant.

We all personalise our Land Rovers to our own satisfaction. I am not fussed about speed or power. I am, however, fairly anal about simplicity (and therefore reliability). I work on the principle that whatever isn't fitted can't break.

As you will see, my engine is now normally aspirated. Does it make less power without its turbo? Of course it does.
The key question is does it make enough power without its turbo? Yes

I appreciate the opportunity to post. I also very much enjoy reading other posts. I have some previous because I started the Tegralok thread over on the Freelander turf quite a while ago.

Keep safe.
 
The jig is impressive.....

The disco...every one of the many Ive broke up and scrapped was better than that :)

Why no turbo?
 
The jig is awesome.

tbh I can’t see the point of removing the turbo, the 300tdi is an engine with proven reliability over years and years of use, including the military. I think removing the turbo is unnecessarily robbing yourself of efficiency
 
EeEk said:
The jig is impressive.....

The disco...every one of the many Ive broke up and scrapped was better than that :)

Why no turbo?
Click to expand...




Thanks for your reply. Having no turbo is just a personal choice. Part of the reason is the way I see my Disco.....to some people a Disco is a car, and the more car-like, the better, so abs, a/c, ecu, turbo, egr, cat etc etc are all must-have. I get that. On the other hand I don't see my Disco as a car, I see it as a tractor with 7 comfortable seats, something that will keep up with the traffic as well as work hard in the fields. On that basis the fewer non-essentials the better, so my Disco hasn't got any of the things I mentioned above. Choosing a 1994 model to restore is part of that, with its all-mechanical injector pump and fewer electronic bells and whistles etc as standard. Because of lockdown I've only done 3000 miles since the rebuild, but so far I don't miss the turbo at all, I can still haul my 800kg (when empty) offroad trailer with two, one-tonne bags of limestone in it at legal speeds, and I can still cruise at 70 ( I don't want to, but I can). I have been impressed by the massive improvement in mpg though. Its too soon to mention figures, but it seems to be getting on for half as much again as I got with my previous (with turbo) Disco. I wondered at first whether to tweak the maximum-fuel screw for a bit more power since there is zero smoke at any throttle setting, but I found that it is fine as it is, so I didn't bother.

Long reply - sorry
 
My jig pales into insignificance :(


162694894_248014457063130_3145808975664998400_n.jpg
 
Diplodicus said:
Thanks for your reply. Having no turbo is just a personal choice. Part of the reason is the way I see my Disco.....to some people a Disco is a car, and the more car-like, the better, so abs, a/c, ecu, turbo, egr, cat etc etc are all must-have. I get that. On the other hand I don't see my Disco as a car, I see it as a tractor with 7 comfortable seats, something that will keep up with the traffic as well as work hard in the fields. On that basis the fewer non-essentials the better, so my Disco hasn't got any of the things I mentioned above. Choosing a 1994 model to restore is part of that, with its all-mechanical injector pump and fewer electronic bells and whistles etc as standard. Because of lockdown I've only done 3000 miles since the rebuild, but so far I don't miss the turbo at all, I can still haul my 800kg (when empty) offroad trailer with two, one-tonne bags of limestone in it at legal speeds, and I can still cruise at 70 ( I don't want to, but I can). I have been impressed by the massive improvement in mpg though. Its too soon to mention figures, but it seems to be getting on for half as much again as I got with my previous (with turbo) Disco. I wondered at first whether to tweak the maximum-fuel screw for a bit more power since there is zero smoke at any throttle setting, but I found that it is fine as it is, so I didn't bother.

Long reply - sorry
Click to expand...


I had two 300tdi, once on the motorway the small boost pipe to the injector pump popped off meaning the turbo did diddly squat, and the thing struggled to hit 50 never mind 70mph.

A few people have fitted tdis to their series minus the turbo, and all reckon the egine noise is quite a bit higher.
 
lynall said:
I had two 300tdi, once on the motorway the small boost pipe to the injector pump popped off meaning the turbo did diddly squat, and the thing struggled to hit 50 never mind 70mph.

A few people have fitted tdis to their series minus the turbo, and all reckon the egine noise is quite a bit higher.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your reply
Yes, I have heard similar accounts. I guess the explanation for your motorway experience is partly that the choking effect (i.e. pumping losses) of the exhaust system with a turbo inline (plus that awfully restrictive exhaust manifold) was suddenly not being compensated for by a boosted fuel flow from the pump. The drop in power was to be expected, I guess.

On the time-honoured basis of "in life, there are no free lunches", installing a turbo means more fuel can be burned stoichometrically per second which means more power. Unfortunately it also takes fuel to overcome the pumping losses in the turbo air circuit, which probably goes a long way towards explaining my dramatic increase in mpg.

The extra noise you mention is probably associated with the lack of attenuation that would otherwise have been provided by the mass of the turbo body, and also by some flattening of the exhaust pulses by the turbo rotor.

The exhausts in the series LRs that you mention might not have been tuned. In my 4-2-1 exhaust the header lengths and diameters are designed to provide a broad torque curve having a gentle peak at around 2000 rpm. In addition to pushing peak power down the rev band, a tuned, long-header exhaust can be quieter than a single large diameter pipe fastened directly to the exhaust manifold. As an aside, I recommend that anyone contemplating making a bespoke exhaust for a medium-capacity diesel like a 300tdi should take a look at A. Graham Bell's excellent "Four-Stroke Performance Tuning, Fourth Edition" ISBN 978 0 85733 125 0, which has been an engine-geek's best-seller for 30 years.

Another long reply. Sorry again!
 
landowner said:
The increase in engine noise could be excess diesel knock due to inefficient burning without the turbo
Click to expand...
Quite. Most of us don't have access to the right test gear, so we have to make do with turning the pump down until smoke is just starting to appear at full chat. That is as close to stoichiometric combustion as we can get. We don't know the circumstances so I guess we should cut these guys some slack. Thanks for your reply.
 
Diplodicus said:
Thanks for your reply
Yes, I have heard similar accounts. I guess the explanation for your motorway experience is partly that the choking effect (i.e. pumping losses) of the exhaust system with a turbo inline (plus that awfully restrictive exhaust manifold) was suddenly not being compensated for by a boosted fuel flow from the pump. The drop in power was to be expected, I guess.

On the time-honoured basis of "in life, there are no free lunches", installing a turbo means more fuel can be burned stoichometrically per second which means more power. Unfortunately it also takes fuel to overcome the pumping losses in the turbo air circuit, which probably goes a long way towards explaining my dramatic increase in mpg.

The extra noise you mention is probably associated with the lack of attenuation that would otherwise have been provided by the mass of the turbo body, and also by some flattening of the exhaust pulses by the turbo rotor.

The exhausts in the series LRs that you mention might not have been tuned. In my 4-2-1 exhaust the header lengths and diameters are designed to provide a broad torque curve having a gentle peak at around 2000 rpm. In addition to pushing peak power down the rev band, a tuned, long-header exhaust can be quieter than a single large diameter pipe fastened directly to the exhaust manifold. As an aside, I recommend that anyone contemplating making a bespoke exhaust for a medium-capacity diesel like a 300tdi should take a look at A. Graham Bell's excellent "Four-Stroke Performance Tuning, Fourth Edition" ISBN 978 0 85733 125 0, which has been an engine-geek's best-seller for 30 years.

Another long reply. Sorry again!
Click to expand...
the extra noise is wasted energy that the turbo would normally use when giving the engine extra power
 
If you say so.
We seem to have got ourselves into a debate about the pros and cons of turbos. I know it is a subject dear to the heart of many people, but I don't have the intelligence to do the subject justice, sorry. On the other hand, if you want to talk about making rotisseries out of parts from the scrap bin and a couple of old zimmer frames, I'm your man.
 
landowner said:
Thinking along the lines of the older pre turbo truck engines, they ran a lot quieter when they were producing power, diesel knock would get less as the revs increased and she started to pull
Click to expand...
turbo engones didnt need much more than a straight pipe as waste energy wasnt noise but used to make power
 
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