poloracer877
Active Member
Hi I'm thinking of adding a separate fuel tank for bio fuel, is this a good idea, thanks Phil
blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
Goes off topic somewhat but loads of opinion here......http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/cooking-oil-td5-80487.html
My TD5 runs entirely on Biodiesel,and has done since May 2013,it is my daily drive.
When I say Biodiesel,I mean F.A.M.E.(fatty acid methyl esters-true biodiesel).I have had no problems thus far.
If you are planning to use just veggie oil or some mix,I have no experience to offer advice,but would guess the in-tank pump would suffer with the higher viscosity,also veggie can cause other issues with ring gumming and sump oil gelling -personally I would not risk it.
When I say Biodiesel,I mean F.A.M.E.(fatty acid methyl esters-true biodiesel).I have had no problems thus far.
If you are planning to use just veggie oil or some mix,I have no experience to offer advice,but would guess the in-tank pump would suffer with the higher viscosity,also veggie can cause other issues with ring gumming and sump oil gelling -personally I would not risk it.
Regularly use Bio in our TD5, by that I mean full 100%bio no problem, apart from slight reluctance to start on cold frosty winter mornings. Have used pure veg oil on long runs (start up vehicle then fill tank with raw veg oil before setting off unless already warm), but for general use only about a third veg oil to either bio or standard diesel and no problems at all.
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
afaik you'll kill the electronic unit injectors on a long run... recommendations from all manufacturers of EUI engines(except Scania) is to not use fuel with more than 5% bio in it... those who addapted the EUI engines to biodiesel have made mods especially for that, even the fuel map must be different if you want a well running engine... which doesnt mean that a Td5 doesnt run on biodiesel just IMO it's not the best thing to do with it
interesting post,and I hear what you say but in my experience,i have not suffered any failure of any sort thus far.On the motorway my TD5 is a real pleasure to drive,cruising at 85mph plus is very easy (except illegal in the UK).And there is more oomph available should I need it-it is easily an outside lane vehicle along with the Audi's and Bmw's.Recently did 300 motorway miles in under 4 hrs(including speed restricted sections).
Had a standing start against BMW mini cooper 2 the other day-I used sport mode,and he could not leave me up to 40 mph-I was not prepared to go any faster,so backed off-the performance is very very good for such a large heavy vehicle.
I guess if the unit injector seals start to give up ,I would see rising sump oil levels,I do monitor my oil level regularly,and no increase or decrease has ever been seen,also the oil stays translucent rather than black you see with derv.
The engine certainly runs much quieter on bio(none of that diesel knock and the exhaust is clean-no smoke,except if you boot it,then it is blue/grey-not the black you get with derv.
I do not advocate others do the same as me,as I run my TD5 on bio entirely at my own risk,but imho bio seems fine in my TD5,and my cost savings on bio vs derv have already saved me what I bought my TD5 for originally-my total fuel cost annually is less than £250 .
I treasure my lovely TD5,and make sure my bio is the best quality I can make,before commiting to my fuel tank.
Interesting when you say bio no more than 5%,some countries in Europe already have bio levels as high as 30% at the pumps now.
Just my findings so far on my TD5 running on bio.
sierrafery
Well-Known Member
i've been reading all kind of articles about that and that was the conclusion... though i prefer to believe you from your live experience than some pure theories
It does seem there are a lots of theories put forward on the interweb as why you should not run bio,but few hard facts to back it up.
Bio (FAME fatty acid methyl esters)is a very pwerful solvent,and easily digests regular rubber components in fuel systems,but so did ULSD diesel and most cars built since ULSD diesel introduction will stand bio as well.
Viton rubber is the material of choice to be completely bio proof.My old 300 tdi suffered from injection pump drive end seal failure as did a pug 106-both were changed for Viton seals and no further problems.My TD5 is year 2000 and I am hoping the seals fitted by then were ULSD diesel compliant(and if I am lucky are Viton),but only time will tell-although running 100% bio as I do,I think I would have had some indication by now.
Most injector and pump failure I have seen apparently caused by bio,can be attributed to "bad bio",whereby soap removal has been incomplete or too high a water content or worse still Methanol still in the fuel ,corroding Aluminium .
I am very careful that my fuel is soap free.dry and has no methanol content,and very high conversion to esters.I did mean to cut open my last fuel filter to see what was present,but in the "service excitement" forgot about it-must do next time.
Winter is more of a challenge,and I do add a small percentage of petrol/diesel mix(mis fuel from garages-tax paid by others ahem!) in winter to keep things liquid .At the moment she is running on bio made from hydrogenated palm oil (this stuff is from chip shops and is solid at room temp)but the bio of course is liquid. But as soon as the temps start to drop,I will revert back to my prime rapeseed and soy stock which is liquid at low temps.In each case,whatever the parent oil,the bio from that oil is liquid to a much lower temp than the parent oil
I think there are 2 issues. One is performance and the other is possible damage.
On performance I would say anyone could risk a test on half a tank of bio or veg oil and try it. I cant see one half of a tank doing much damage on a one off basis. I cant tell any difference and that includes towing, I did think the engine was quieter, but had no way of measuring the sound level.
On damage to vehicle or components, we are probably the test bed for long term use, I cant see any manufacturer sticking his neck out to say anything other than standard diesel is ok, why would they, the market for bio use is so small, its easier to play safe. It would be nice to see Land Rover do a technical 100K test, but again why should they. Its hard to get any technical info for TD5 use, because who has the time and money to install all the instrumentation, and years, to run the long term testing.
As always you do so at your own risk!
On performance I would say anyone could risk a test on half a tank of bio or veg oil and try it. I cant see one half of a tank doing much damage on a one off basis. I cant tell any difference and that includes towing, I did think the engine was quieter, but had no way of measuring the sound level.
On damage to vehicle or components, we are probably the test bed for long term use, I cant see any manufacturer sticking his neck out to say anything other than standard diesel is ok, why would they, the market for bio use is so small, its easier to play safe. It would be nice to see Land Rover do a technical 100K test, but again why should they. Its hard to get any technical info for TD5 use, because who has the time and money to install all the instrumentation, and years, to run the long term testing.
As always you do so at your own risk!
markSX
Active Member
With respect, a 300tdi run on veg/diesel 50/50 is no comparison to a td5 run on bio.
I run my 300tdi on bio, but it's still no comparison, these engines will run on almost anything that will get through the filter, a td5 on the other hand.......................
Ran my 300tdi on bio for 3 or 4 years before I got my TD5,which is my present bio toy.
On the 300 tdi the bio did eventually nosh the drive end seal of the injection pump-which leaked into timing cover and noshed the cambelt as well
Got away with just fitting new viton seal-difficult as no key way on shaft,but managed to sort it.
pm if you get to this point and need help!
markSX
Active Member
Ran my 300tdi on bio for 3 or 4 years before I got my TD5,which is my present bio toy.
On the 300 tdi the bio did eventually nosh the drive end seal of the injection pump-which leaked into timing cover and noshed the cambelt as well
Got away with just fitting new viton seal-difficult as no key way on shaft,but managed to sort it.
pm if you get to this point and need help!
Mine has a viton seal already, I brought it off another bio brewer and it's covered around 95K on bio.
Are you on vegetableoildiesel forum ?
markSX
Active Member
Yup,but not been on there in ages.I guess Vince will start a cider brewing thread soon
Jules was the last owner of my disco, and there's nowt wrong with Vince's cider.
