Gunter Shingleditch

Gunter Shingleditch

Member
Hello Guys,

Quick one. Please can someone confirm before I spend £1000 on new injectors on Wednesday.

2004 FL1 TD4 with 135K Manual.

Runs sweet but STINKS of exhaust and on cold engine if kept at 1000 revs will misfire slightly and smokes white/grey/blueish smoke. Feels nice and quick, decent MPG but stinks when idling and if one would open the back window whilst driving it is horrid - sulphur stink - really bad. It also puffs white/grey/blueish smoke on start-ups and will leave a trail of white/grey/blueish smoke when accelerating hard when cold - I doubt its steam as it trails 2-3 car lengths behind me on the ground. Confirmed no white/grey/blueish smoke when accelerating hard with engine warm. Idles decently when cold but absolutely fine when hot. Also when holding revs at 1000 when hot you can still feel sliiiight lump but no smoke just SMELL!

Car had loads of money spent on it as I love it. This is the last thing to make it the most sorted FL1 in the UK :))) Engine wise in the last year:
- new boost hoses
- looks like new vacuum lines by the last guy
- new glow plugs
- manifold and MAP clean and new seals
- egr blanked before my ownership
- new spill hoses and brass plugs
- bmw crankcase mod when first got it
- new bosch maf
- new IAT
- low pressure FP is silent - doesn't whine like on my last FL I also didn't change the fuel filter - will ask garage to do this first on Wednesday.

I am running Millers eco max since I got it last year. It had a ron box on when I got it but I took it off as don't need the power and was trying to diagnose the stink. Stinks less without the ron box. Once ron box was off I got maf errors so got new maf. Run great with no maf BTW but still stunk. New maf and adaptations reset and it felt fine (still stinky though) until sub zero temps hit the South East where there was dangerously no power below 2k when cold and just bare minimum power when heated up. Now that the temp is back to 10/11 degrees outside it drives fine again but stinks.

My Icarsoft LR 1.0 must be fake or broken because it only shows fuelling comp and roughness once every so often I have to click REC button on and off again and it will do a cycle of data once every blue moon. Can you guys have a look at this and confirm if £500+ quid of recon Lucas injectors + labour is the right path?

I get a code 1613 Cylinder balance control - I assume the injectors are out or range of the ECU's capability to adjust or compensate?

This is data on warm engine after 20 minute drive @ 50/60mph:
Low Pressure Supply ----- 346.5 - that sometimes goes N/A on the scanner - only noticed that when reviewing data on PC
Airflow ----- 405.3mg/str
Coolant Temperature ----- 82.85°C - no too cold? I had my heating on
Engine Speed ----- 762rpm
Fuel Pressure Regulator Current ----- 0.69
High Pressure Rail ----- 28658.84kPa
Inlet Air Temperature ----- 15.55°C
Manifold Pressure ----- 101.9kPa
Pedal 1 Demand ----- 0.74%
Pedal 2 Demand ----- 0.37%
Battery Voltage ----- 14.19V
Capacitor 1 ----- 76.76V
Sensor Supply 1 ----- 4.99V
Sensor Supply 2 ----- 4.99V

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Frame 94/225: - I only managed to get a handful of frames and used excel to get the data
Cylinder 1 ----- 16.98 this was anywhere from -1.9 to 16.98
Cylinder 2 ----- 12.88 this was anywhere from 7.88 to 12.88
Cylinder 3 ----- 20.69 this was anywhere from 20.39 to 20.69
Cylinder 4 ----- 11.52 this was anywhere from 11.52 to 13.52
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What you reckon - go for the injectors? Did the ron box do a number on them or maybe just worn? I reckon the car was like that since I had it but it didn't bother me before - I always just associated the stink with the ron box boosting the power etc. I was hoping that when I get rid of the box it will go back to being not stinky but it only reduced the stink didn't get rid of it. People roll their windows up and give me evils on the road in traffic. I followed an old defender one day last week and it stunk like mine - nothing pleasant - had to put my recirc on! :)

Please help.

Thanks!
 
Hello Nodge. OMG I was hoping you would respond - you are a legend - I have read many of your posts and learned LOADS from you.

Smells like diesel exhaust but CONCENTRATED really strong and pungent. When the ron box was on it stung your eyes almost. One guy asked if I am running on waste chip oil.

Stinks the same regardless of season and if using millers in that tank or not.
 
Hi,

Diesel smell ... you have some unburnt diesel, so can be injectors, the hp fuel pump or a bad fuel pipe.
Best way to spot a bad injector is to do a fuel return test.

Regards.
 
I am just going to have to trust the garage to have my best interest in mind and not just throw the parts in and then realise it wasn't that.

It is a lot of money but if it fixes it I don't mind as much!

Will update.
 
Ron box is known to damage the HPFP it can make it leak before time, have a leak back test done on the injectors, i have four good injectors in my shed somewhere, which are from a decent Rover 75 M47 £1000 for injectors seems a lot to me.
 
Hi Arctic2, will ask them to test before changing anything. Injectors were £140 each including vat and they want the old units back. I am spraying penetrant on everything since Saturday morning so hopefully Labour will be reasonable but I am fearing £1000 all in :mad:
 
Gunter Shingleditch said:
Hi Arctic2, will ask them to test before changing anything. Injectors were £140 each including vat and they want the old units back. I am spraying penetrant on everything since Saturday morning so hopefully Labour will be reasonable but I am fearing £1000 all in :mad:
Click to expand...
Hi Gunter.
Even so Labour should be no more than hour minimum and 2.5 max including any that are hard to remove, but yes the way forward is a leak back test first.
 
Gunter Shingleditch said:
Hi Arctic2, will ask them to test before changing anything. Injectors were £140 each including vat and they want the old units back. I am spraying penetrant on everything since Saturday morning so hopefully Labour will be reasonable but I am fearing £1000 all in :mad:
Click to expand...
If you must change injectors, working used or brand new is the way to go. I'd avoid reconditioned injectors, unless reconditioned my Bosch themselves. New injectors won't have a core charge, so you can keep the old ones.
 
Gunter Shingleditch said:
Hello Guys,

Quick one. Please can someone confirm before I spend £1000 on new injectors on Wednesday.

2004 FL1 TD4 with 135K Manual.

Runs sweet but STINKS of exhaust and on cold engine if kept at 1000 revs will misfire slightly and smokes white/grey/blueish smoke. Feels nice and quick, decent MPG but stinks when idling and if one would open the back window whilst driving it is horrid - sulphur stink - really bad. It also puffs white/grey/blueish smoke on start-ups and will leave a trail of white/grey/blueish smoke when accelerating hard when cold - I doubt its steam as it trails 2-3 car lengths behind me on the ground. Confirmed no white/grey/blueish smoke when accelerating hard with engine warm. Idles decently when cold but absolutely fine when hot. Also when holding revs at 1000 when hot you can still feel sliiiight lump but no smoke just SMELL!

Car had loads of money spent on it as I love it. This is the last thing to make it the most sorted FL1 in the UK :))) Engine wise in the last year:
- new boost hoses
- looks like new vacuum lines by the last guy
- new glow plugs
- manifold and MAP clean and new seals
- egr blanked before my ownership
- new spill hoses and brass plugs
- bmw crankcase mod when first got it
- new bosch maf
- new IAT
- low pressure FP is silent - doesn't whine like on my last FL I also didn't change the fuel filter - will ask garage to do this first on Wednesday.

I am running Millers eco max since I got it last year. It had a ron box on when I got it but I took it off as don't need the power and was trying to diagnose the stink. Stinks less without the ron box. Once ron box was off I got maf errors so got new maf. Run great with no maf BTW but still stunk. New maf and adaptations reset and it felt fine (still stinky though) until sub zero temps hit the South East where there was dangerously no power below 2k when cold and just bare minimum power when heated up. Now that the temp is back to 10/11 degrees outside it drives fine again but stinks.

My Icarsoft LR 1.0 must be fake or broken because it only shows fuelling comp and roughness once every so often I have to click REC button on and off again and it will do a cycle of data once every blue moon. Can you guys have a look at this and confirm if £500+ quid of recon Lucas injectors + labour is the right path?

I get a code 1613 Cylinder balance control - I assume the injectors are out or range of the ECU's capability to adjust or compensate?

This is data on warm engine after 20 minute drive @ 50/60mph:
Low Pressure Supply ----- 346.5 - that sometimes goes N/A on the scanner - only noticed that when reviewing data on PC
Airflow ----- 405.3mg/str
Coolant Temperature ----- 82.85°C - no too cold? I had my heating on
Engine Speed ----- 762rpm
Fuel Pressure Regulator Current ----- 0.69
High Pressure Rail ----- 28658.84kPa
Inlet Air Temperature ----- 15.55°C
Manifold Pressure ----- 101.9kPa
Pedal 1 Demand ----- 0.74%
Pedal 2 Demand ----- 0.37%
Battery Voltage ----- 14.19V
Capacitor 1 ----- 76.76V
Sensor Supply 1 ----- 4.99V
Sensor Supply 2 ----- 4.99V

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Frame 94/225: - I only managed to get a handful of frames and used excel to get the data
Cylinder 1 ----- 16.98 this was anywhere from -1.9 to 16.98
Cylinder 2 ----- 12.88 this was anywhere from 7.88 to 12.88
Cylinder 3 ----- 20.69 this was anywhere from 20.39 to 20.69
Cylinder 4 ----- 11.52 this was anywhere from 11.52 to 13.52
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What you reckon - go for the injectors? Did the ron box do a number on them or maybe just worn? I reckon the car was like that since I had it but it didn't bother me before - I always just associated the stink with the ron box boosting the power etc. I was hoping that when I get rid of the box it will go back to being not stinky but it only reduced the stink didn't get rid of it. People roll their windows up and give me evils on the road in traffic. I followed an old defender one day last week and it stunk like mine - nothing pleasant - had to put my recirc on! :)

Please help.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Heya I also run millers in mine too. Just wondering have you ran a Wynn's system clean just incase it may help b4 you get injectors replaced and I'd go brand new if you can get them. I do this every 4 or so months on top of the millers but I have been trying to get some build up out of the system after my period of black smoke coming out.

www.halfords.com

Wynns Formula Gold Diesel Treatment 500ml | Halfords UK

Shop the latest Wynns Formula Gold High Performance Diesel System Treatment cleans & lubricates the fuel system at Halfords UK
www.halfords.com www.halfords.com
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone.

Ok so the garage did the test with me there. The mechanic has installed 4 x 25cm or so rigid pipes on top of the injectors. Cranked and started for literally 2 seconds and injector 2 tube was full and spraying out of the top! The remaining tubes had all 4/5mm of diesel in them. We have replaced only injector 2. The mechanic didn't do any adaptation resets - not sure if the ECU can figure out on its own that a new injector is in?

Unfortunately no change. Still stinks, puffs white/blueish on start-up, shakes and smells when holding at 1000 revs.

Still have 1613 cylinder imbalance

Mechanic says that the turbo is hard to spin by hand, no play in it but you can't just give it a twirl with your fingers and it spins. apparently quite tight and almost feels notchy.

Could the MAF be to blame? Car thinks that more air is coming in than there actually is and is over fuelling? icorsoft says 405.3mg/str - seems ok?

Could it be the Fuel pressure sensor? The rail pressure is higher than the sensor is saying so the same duration of injection over fuels? Sensor reports 28658.84kPa at idle but if that is wrong the car can be overfueling?

Problem is that I can't see a way of testing these things to find the problem - hate just throwing parts at it.

What do you guys think?

Thank you.
 
Hello - just to close the thread.

In the end 4 reman Lucas injectors went in and that has cured the puff of grey smoke on start-up and the missing at 1000rpm.

No smoke now, no miss seems to run fine - now only the MAF is to be fixed. No cylinder imbalance code.

So unfortunately Gentlemen - when mechanic says injectors it most likely is injectors - £700+vat I think it was in the end.

Thank you.
 
Gunter Shingleditch said:
Hello - just to close the thread.

In the end 4 reman Lucas injectors went in and that has cured the puff of grey smoke on start-up and the missing at 1000rpm.

No smoke now, no miss seems to run fine - now only the MAF is to be fixed. No cylinder imbalance code.

So unfortunately Gentlemen - when mechanic says injectors it most likely is injectors - £700+vat I think it was in the end.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I think you've done alright there. I paid about £1k for four new injectors about ten years ago!
 
On Friday i will doing a leak back test on a friends FL1 TD4 which he recently bought, he's changed the oil filter and oil, changed out the PCV filter which had been fitted upside down how they managed to do that i don't know.

The manifold and EGR have been changed out with clean MAP, clean air filter, turbo little filter, yet to check the MAF, also remove the EGR hose before to see if it makes any difference to the turbo, but it's looking likely the injectors are at fault.
 
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