UKAirborne · May 13, 2012

Hi all,
I posted up the other day on someone elses thread that I was having issues with a leaking sunroof..surprise, suprise!

Since it was a nice day yesterday I went round all the door seals with vaseline, really gave them a good rub with the stuff, did the rear sunroof, gave that a good clean, went to do the front and noticed the front sunroof would not open, just clicking.

I took the map/light/satnav trimming out and switched the sunroof switches around, no joy so switches were ruled out, the sunroof ecu was clicking away.. so put a test light on the live wire to the motor, light came on so I took the motor out.. was shocked to find the whole motor assembly inside was corroded, there was a lot of water in there!

Stripped the entire motor assembly, soaked with contact cleaner and brake cleaner, scrubbed all the corrosion off (best I could), spent hrs messing about with it.. cleaned, put it all back (was quite chuffed I managed to figure it all out without a book.. must be getting into this Landrover malarkey)

tested the motor and it works but it doesn't have enough guts to open the sunroof (only about an inch), so I guess its nackered!

I checked and RimmerBro's want £243.84 for a new motor!

I'm NOT paying that stupid price for such a small component.. will take my chances with a second hand unit I think, can anyone of you lovely people please, please point me in the right direction, as to where I can source a replacement sunroof motor (guessing there's no difference between front and rear sunroof motors - stupid question probably, but I haven't seen the rear sunroof motor)?

Im guessing all sunroof motors are the same 300tdi - td5 or am I wrong?

Don't suppose there's a repair kit for the sunroof motor, like there is for the starter motors?

Cheers.

discool · May 13, 2012

Yes all sunroof motors are the same although the later D2s have a red cog wheel and D1s are white-ish.
I assume you tested the direct to your battery first, if so did you make sure the cog was in sync with the motor ie. the dots lined up before fitting.

There's no repair kit and motors can be found on e-bay sometimes

UKAirborne · May 13, 2012

discool said:
Yes all sunroof motors are the same although the later D2s have a red cog wheel and D1s are white-ish.
I assume you tested the direct to your battery first, if so did you make sure the cog was in sync with the motor ie. the dots lined up before fitting.

There's no repair kit and motors can be found on e-bay sometimes

Thanks for clearing that up, atleat I know I can get one, not limited to a specific motor

.. I tested by connecting the motor to the original harness, (not connected to the sunroof mechanism) and it works perfectly, however I'm not quite sure how to sync the motor, where do the dots have to be?

I did have the motor apart today and spend another half an hour just getting rid of any corrosion on the motor itself, but still no joy..works but only just, will barely lift the sunroof, I have to push on thesunroof just to get it to lift an inch,.. I would like to think the cogs are out of sync, but I think the motor is shot.

discool · May 13, 2012

"where do the dots have to be" lined up as in pic above. if the motor spins and the cog turns I would say it's ok. have you tried oning and closing the sunroof manually? so checking that the track isn't jamed by a broken roller.

UKAirborne · May 13, 2012

Thinking about it, you maybe on to something here.. I wonder whilst I been tinckering if the motor is in the half way position (tilted but not fully open) perhaps.. I shall investigate that in the morning when I get back from work! Thanks.

As for manualy opening it, how does one go about this without the motor?

discool · May 13, 2012

You will still need the motor in place but by inserting an allan key into the socket in the center of the drive wheel therefore disengaging the motor drive you can, albeit very slowly, turn the key so the glass will move to open or close positions.

When refitting the motor the sunroof must be fully down tight in the normal closed position.

UKAirborne · May 13, 2012

Thanks for the info 'discool', I thought that was the manual way of opening it, but when I tried it, nothing seemed to happen, so i didn't continue incase I broke something..which is usualy the case with me

lol

I shall investigate in the morning and report back with my findings, hopefuly it will be some good news!

Thanks for taking the time to help, very much appreciated!!

walpoleer · May 13, 2012

discool said:
You will still need the motor in place but by inserting an allan key into the socket in the center of the drive wheel therefore disengaging the motor drive you can, albeit very slowly, turn the key so the glass will move to open or close positions.

When refitting the motor the sunroof must be fully down tight in the normal closed position.

I tried that on mine, but the worm drive didn't disengage, so I gave up, maybe You have to push the allen key in really far to disengage the mechanism, the allen key worked when I removed the actual motor, leaving just the gearbox in place, also was then able to set the marks to the correct place, (notch just before the Micro switch), reinstalled the motor having cleaned out all the old rust, polished the commutator and brush gear, lubricated all the bearings. It worked great first time. but failed to get the roof open all the way, say about once in every ten attempts.

lubricated the slides and push rods, no different, so on to the bay to find a new/replacement motor,after biding on a few, the prices were way OTT, upshot was it was cheaper (even with the postage) to buy one from the USA, California scrappers, not much rain!!!!

When it arrived it was out of a 300, white gearwheel cover, but opened it up and it was like new, gave it a service, just cause it was out, refitted works a treat. sorry for the ramble, if you need a motor and it sound like your at the same place I was, check out the USA eBay listings.

hope this helps

UKAirborne · May 13, 2012

walpoleer said:
I tried that on mine, but the worm drive didn't disengage, so I gave up, maybe You have to push the allen key in really far to disengage the mechanism, the allen key worked when I removed the actual motor, leaving just the gearbox in place, also was then able to set the marks to the correct place, (notch just before the Micro switch), reinstalled the motor having cleaned out all the old rust, polished the commutator and brush gear, lubricated all the bearings. It worked great first time. but failed to get the roof open all the way, say about once in every ten attempts.

lubricated the slides and push rods, no different, so on to the bay to find a new/replacement motor,after biding on a few, the prices were way OTT, upshot was it was cheaper (even with the postage) to buy one from the USA, California scrappers, not much rain!!!!

When it arrived it was out of a 300, white gearwheel cover, but opened it up and it was like new, gave it a service, just cause it was out, refitted works a treat. sorry for the ramble, if you need a motor and it sound like your at the same place I was, check out the USA eBay listings.

hope this helps

Thanks for the info, sounds like i'm having the same issue you had.. I got my feelers out for a second hand motor, few breakers have replied, I shall bare the USA scrappers in mind! if I fail to sort anything tidy out - thats if it does need replacing.. should know by tomorrow.. hopefuly it wont and I can afford to put the cash towards some decent work bench equipment instead.

cheers.

discool · May 14, 2012

That's right the allan key has to be pressed in hard to disengage the motor, allowing the cam wheel/drive cog to turn. :doh:

UKAirborne · May 14, 2012

Well.. I gave it a go, yes you were correct the motor was out of sync

so I made sure it was in the correct position and reattached but to no avail, the motor still struggles!

I tried the motor at a few different positions but it doesn't have the power to lift the sunroof without my help.

I followed your advice and opened the sunroof manual, the sunroof opened without a problem :clap2: I can't see any damage to the rollers (not that they are easy to see, neither are the drainage holes. - Whilst it was open I cleaned the seals - there was a fair bit of gunk in there.. noticed water was on the motor cog

.. used the method of cleaning the passenger side drainage tube with a net curtain wire, for the life of me I couldn't locate the driver's side drainage tube inlet.

I ran water through both drainage tubes and low and behold the source of the water into the headlining was discovered, the sunroof drainage tray must be cracked as its peeing water through it way before the pipes, same on both sides

(looks like its time to strip the headlining out and repair the damage).. but that wouldn't explain why the motor has water on the cog.. guessing the entire sunroof will have to come out to be resealed.

Can someone please tell me what sealant is the best for doing this, I might as well do a proper job whilst the vehicle is in bits, I don't really fancy a repeat visit to do this job again If I can help it.

cheers.

discool · May 14, 2012

It look like a replacement motor then, that's a shame.

Here's a link that may help, http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/sealing-up-sunroofs-186363.html hopefully you may only have a faulty glass seal if so it's an easy replacement, some say a dab of Vasaline on the edge of the seal works.

If both seals are ok then you don't need the drains but if they are leaking thats because the plustic cup arrangment which is only stuck to the fraim with sealent has become detached due to aging of the sealent, it's an easey repair but the head has to be dropped to get access.

If the body seal is faulty water will run straight into vehicle and exit any where it can just like whe the drains have be come detached.

UKAirborne · May 17, 2012

Thanks for the link, I have decided to go the whole hog and try and nip this problem in the back side!

I have ordered a repalcement seal and some araldite, I have also been to town yesterday and got some tiger seal, I been slowly stripping the Landy so hopefuly later today i'm popping down to my local mechanic who is kindly going to help me strip the entire sunroof out of the vehicle fix the lot and hopefuly that will be the end of the sunroof problem!

On a brighter note the replacement sunroof motor arrived today (curtesy of Skan 4x4 Breakers - £50 posted next day delivery, bargain!) I didn't hesitate to give it a whirl, I'm glad to report the sunroof is opening and closing..good as new!

.. But i'm wondering if it's not sucha bad idea just to open this motor up and give it a quick inspection for water ingress/damage.. but I'm somewhat worried I may be causign myself a problem (if it ain't broke, dont fix it) guessing I should have a peak to be on the safe side!?

On a seperate topic I just purchased a whole load of oils, diff, transfer and gear box as I don't know when the last owner changed them, and going by his previous trackl record of skipping and saving on repairs I think it's a safe bet to say they haven't been changed in a long while! - I was suprised by how much the gear box actualy takes, thats a lot of oil!

(then i am new to all this so you'l have to excuse me!).. also got myself some brass plugs to replace the plastic plugs (as advised on the landrover discovery 2 website - guessing they are perfectly fine to use?)

Also bought an erg blanking kit (as i've had an erg to fail on me before and I don't want this to happen again.. rip the sodding thing off)

Thanks for the advice, will keep you posted on the outcome of the repair.
cheers.

discool · May 17, 2012

I have found it hard to obay the rule "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" in the past and ended up with broken plastic clips and striped threads etc so i'd say don't touch it.

Plastic diff plugs was one of the 700 improvements the D2 has on the D1 which has steel plugs.

UKAirborne · May 19, 2012

Thanks for the advice 'discool', I have decided not to fiddle with it, as I tend to brake things by mistake when I do :doh:

The mechanic didn't fancy ripping the whole sunroof out as he suggested that if the water is only coming in via the drainage channel tubes then the seal between sunroof and body should be ok.

As stated before I Araldite glued the plastic parts to the metal drip tray hoping this would solve the problem but on later testing/inspection the water was still dripping onto the headlining, (but only when a fair bit of water was added into the tray), closer inspection pointed to the hex screw+washer, water was mounting up and coming down the screw

- it just amazes me that Landrover thought the sunroof design was a good design, the design of the tray also seems to allow water easy passage to the motor if there is a problem :doh:.. ok when its new I suppose, or fully working.

Anyways, long story short I silicone around the screw heads on both sides nearest the drainage channels, and fixed it back to the vehicle.. so far so good!

.. I also replaced the sunroof seal using a bit of sealant underneath as advised, and a bit of vasaline for good measure.. the new seal seemed softer and better fitting so hopefully that will be the end of the darn sunroof problem!

Image shows the driver side drainage channel, and the bolt that the water was leaking from, also shows the repaired plastic channel.. quick/easy fix but time-consuming to remove all the map pockets, sun visor, alarm, door pillar trim etc.. not something I want to do again in a hurry! - especially having done it twice already, I'm now glad the Landy is back together

(Worth noting that if anyone attempts this fix watch out for sharp edges, I've lost count how many nasty cuts I got from somewhere, onyl noticed when I went to wash my hands..oh boy did I notice!!

then again it could just be me.. im accident prone)

Thanks for all of your advice guys, much appreciated! - I'm learning slowly, just hope I don't have any more issues and have to try to fix this again.

cheers.

plastic soul · May 20, 2012

My sunroof seals need replacing

Water drips out of holes at back of tray after heavy rain if car is backed onto out sloped drive

UKAirborne · May 20, 2012

Just wondering, since there wasn't any fitting instructions with my sunroof seal (although pretty self explanatory really).

I couldn't find any on the internet either, (probably not looking in the right areas) so I went ahead and guessed, removed the old seal, scraped and cleaned up the channel where the seal sits in, put a small bead of silicon along the entire length of the seal and inserted the seal (I pressed a bit too hard initially and ended up stretching the rubber slightly so i had to lift a bit and spread it evenly (nothing major just made me panic at the time).. and finally used a little vaseline on the seal to help it a little.

Only after installation did I spot that the seal has a minute hole in it, pointed inwards, is this hole meant to be at a certain direction or does it not matter?

discool · May 21, 2012

I suspect the hole is similar to door seals, there to let air out when closing. I dont use my sunroofs I may open once a year to clean but that's it... i'd look at the position of the other sunroof seal.

UKAirborne · May 21, 2012

discool said:
I suspect the hole is similar to door seals, there to let air out when closing.. i'd look at the position of the other sunroof seal.

Why didn't I think of this before.. tbh I forget it has two sunroofs lol

Thanks, shall do that, but is a bit late now if its in the wrong place, typical though, now I've fixed the leaky sunroof we start to have nice sunny weather

shouldn't complain though!

discool · May 22, 2012

I can't see that it matters, the hole inboard so water wont be going into it, perhaps 'if' there is a position for it it's at the front, the final area of the seal to compress. Who knows

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