A

Archy1234

Member
Hi all
I wonder if someone can help me. My 1989 90 has a stating problem. Turn the key and nothing happens. Battery is fine and everything works bar the ignition but once in fifty goes it will fire up straight away.
The recovery chap said it could be a starter relay problem and suggested changing it.
Problem is I can see the relays behind the instrument panel, a yellow one and a black one but how do I identify the one that relates to the ignition.

Cheers in advance
 
You haven't got one. The solenoid on the starter motor itself engages the starter. This needs a good voltage to the little spade terminal next to the 13mm nuts with the heavy cables going to them. Check, clean that terminal connection first and report back.
 
Flossie said:
You haven't got one. The solenoid on the starter motor itself engages the starter. This needs a good voltage to the little spade terminal next to the 13mm nuts with the heavy cables going to them. Check, clean that terminal connection first and report back.
Click to expand...
Flossie said:
You haven't got one. The solenoid on the starter motor itself engages the starter. This needs a good voltage to the little spade terminal next to the 13mm nuts with the heavy cables going to them. Check, clean that terminal connection first and report back.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Done that but still no joy. The recovery man said there was no power to the solenoid. I suppose it’s why he suggested that the relay could be the problem.
 
Then it's the wire coming from the ign switch or/and the ign switch itself, that's held on by 2 small screws on the end of the lock barrel.
 
Although you also need a good earth cable from the starter motor or block to the chassis. No harm in taking that off and checking it's intact and clean/tight. You can run a jump lead direct from battery earth to the block to check this and also a wire from battery positive to the solenoid spade and it will/should turn over if the motor is good, do this with ign OFF and out of gear.
 
Flossie said:
Although you also need a good earth cable from the starter motor or block to the chassis. No harm in taking that off and checking it's intact and clean/tight. You can run a jump lead direct from battery earth to the block to check this and also a wire from battery positive to the solenoid spade and it will/should turn over if the motor is good, do this with ign OFF and out of gear.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all your help with this. The earth looks good. I will try and change the ignition switch. It doesn’t look too difficult if I can get to the screws.
 
Hang on Archy. I have a 1990 90 and it does have a relay in the starter system, it is one of the ones under the fuses. The middle one I think.
Two years ago I was having the same problem as you. As a temporary get around I rigged a live wire from the batt through a switch to the starter solenoid. This would work every time even when the key would not.
Swapped out the relay, did not help but found I could jump start with a wire at the relay position [ relay out ] .
It did look like an ignition switch failure so I changed it, still no good.
Traced the problem to the wire from the ignition switch to the relay that it activates . Getting a new line there would be a right pain so gave up on that.
I took a new line from the big Glow plug wire at the ignition switch through a starter button then direct to the starter solenoid.
Starting on mine is now hold key in glow position with one hand and press button with other. No need for a large cable going to the starter, only takes about 5 amps to activate the starter.
Review. Could be relay, or ignition switch or wire.
 
Iirc my starter has no relay in the cabin (92 tdi) and it is the fat white wire from the ign barrel straight to the starter solenoid.
The little spade on the starter solenoid does like to come loose, and it is in a real sod of a position to get to, simply nipping up the spade connector and refiitting it fixes it.

I would trace the wire and make sure you have no cut out switch/relay/immobiliser fitted by a po.
 
Thanks both. I do have something behind the fuses that looks like a relay. It is just strange that it will fire up occasionally. I have ordered a new ignition switch and will try changing that anyway. It looks like spaghetti junction behind the dials though! Electrical stuff is akin to the dark arts to me. Just trying to avoid calling out an auto electric ian.
 
Archy1234 said:
Thanks both. I do have something behind the fuses that looks like a relay. It is just strange that it will fire up occasionally. I have ordered a new ignition switch and will try changing that anyway. It looks like spaghetti junction behind the dials though! Electrical stuff is akin to the dark arts to me. Just trying to avoid calling out an auto electric ian.
Click to expand...

They all look crap behind the dash.

Wiring diagram for ealry 90s, note shows no relay.
Screen Shot 2021-04-21 at 17.14.59.png


Diagram for later cars, note it shows a relay!

Screen Shot 2021-04-21 at 17.15.47.png


So the diagrams are wrong or the cars are
 
There should be two relays to left of the interior fuse box one for starter relay one for headlight, relay cannot remember which one is which anyways pull em out one at a time give em a shake if its rattles probably knackered or if you own a multimeter u can do a resistance check , google how to do check . Personally I'd do this before I start replacing ignition barrels etc
 
Thanks again for the help chaps. I have actually learned a good bit. Thanks for the diagrams. They help. Hopefully I can get this sorted. I am determined to get to the bottom of it. She’s not really given me any real grief so hopefully it won’t be a big job.
 
Hi chaps an update on my ignition problem. I put in a new relay with no joy. I took the starter switch off to replace one noticed that the little coupling in the pic was broken. I think the spindle is turning freely because of it and not engaging. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement. I don’t even what it is called?
2021-04-25_21h09_30.jpg
 
Archy1234 said:
Hi chaps an update on my ignition problem. I put in a new relay with no joy. I took the starter switch off to replace one noticed that the little coupling in the pic was broken. I think the spindle is turning freely because of it and not engaging. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement. I don’t even what it is called?View attachment 236738
Click to expand...
Search ignition switch on paddocks motors, you need the diesel one.
Actually, I've a spare still in its box somewhere, should have the part number on it...back in abit...
 
Hang on...just looked at my spare one and that looks the same as yours. I assumed, wrongly I think, that the plastic part in the switch had come out?
Is that broken bit metal? Could be part of the ign barrel?
Edit, you posted as I was typing, dunno about that coupling, hopefully it's an available part, if not, a new ign barrel complete may be needed.
 
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