Hello All,
I'm after a bit of help with this one. On starting my 2001 Freelander 1 nothing. I checked the battery which was ok and went through a quick check of earths wires etc, all seemed ok. Came to the conclusion that it was the starter motor so gave it a little tap and it sort of put in a bit of effort but then nothing, Strange thing was that at this point the rear window kept going down even when keys removed.
Got a starter from a scrap yard that had been tested and fitted it. Went to connect the battery and it sparked quite a bit but the interesting bit was the starter motor wound up as if it was spinning in the housing without it engaging the fly wheel and will continue spinning as long as the battery is conected. It will do this every time I try to connect the battery regardless of the ignition wire being connected or not. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you may have tied the main battery lead to the wrong side of the solenoid?

If I remember correctly the solenoid is directly linked to the clutch mechanism so unless there's a short in the solenoid, or the battery lead is on the wrong side you can't spin the starter without engaging the clutch!

(and by clutch I mean the flywheel engagement mechanism)

Hi B34R,
That's what I don't get, everything went on as it come off and it doesn't try to engage it just spins up as soon as you apply power. I'm the first to admit when it comes to amateur mechanics I'm more amateur than mechanic. I do wonder that even if the unit was tested it may have a fault and the only way I will know is to try another starter. Its very frustrating when I only have two wires to play with and I still cant get it to work

The rear window will go down if the battery is disconnected and reconnected.

I think B34R is right - there must be something bridging the two solenoid terminals otherwise the Bendix mechanism would be engaging. Pull the starter, and open up the solenoid. Inside will be a plunger with a heavy-gauge copper ring which contacts two copper tabs underneath.

monty247 said:

Hi B34R,
That's what I don't get, everything went on as it come off and it doesn't try to engage it just spins up as soon as you apply power. I'm the first to admit when it comes to amateur mechanics I'm more amateur than mechanic. I do wonder that even if the unit was tested it may have a fault and the only way I will know is to try another starter. Its very frustrating when I only have two wires to play with and I still cant get it to work

Click to expand...

I can really only see this happening at all in the event of you connecting the high current cable to the wrong terminal on the starter - or - your cable end termination (the metal ring connector crimped onto the battery high current cable) is shorting the two external solenoid posts - see below) - I cannot see it being a solenoid issue at all as there is quite a gap to bridge inside the solenoid to allow for the operating lever (attached to the solenoid internal moving rod) to throw the collar and gear into the ring gear.
On the starter solenoid - check there should be two large terminals and the smaller activation terminal.
One terminal should have nothing connected to it apart from the high current cable from the battery - the other should lead intot he starter motor body by a heavy braid or similar.
It is the terminal without the heavy braid !.

If you definitely have it on the correct terminal of the solenoid - then -most likely thing is that the two large terminals on the outside of the solenoid are being bridged by your high current terminal. (the metal crimped connector) on the end of your starter cable from the battery! (this can happen as the crimped high current terminal is usually oblong shaped with a hole offset - check this is definitely not touching the other terminal on the solenoid - this can happen if you have the wire terminal connected but rotated 45 degrees causing a 'corner' of the terminal to bridge the two external solenoid posts. - this is probably the most likely -
An external 'short' between the solenoid terminal posts is almost certainly the issue - an internal short would - unless mechanical failure of the operating arm in the starter - pre engage the unit (this type of failure is HIGHLY unlikely. an external short will cause exactly your symptoms and is HIGHLY likely.


Joe

Monty, is this a Td4? As always, posting up engine type and other such info can reduce confusion.

The Td4 starter design makes it very difficult to attach the +ve cable directly to the motor - there is only one big terminal.

Hi Guinea, Sorry its a Freelander 1 2001 1800 petrol engine. I'm going to have a play with the points above and see if I can rectify it as if I don't sort it soon I fear my other half may torch it while I sleep.


Right I have made sure that no cables are touching any where they shouldn't and they aren't. To connect the starter motor unit up there are only two points. One is the starter motor main supply which runs from the battery direct to the unit via a crimped o ring which is then bolted on. The second is the solenoid terminal. there is only one tab that this can go on in fact there is only one tap full stop and even if I disconnect this wire and have only the main power the motor winds up. This is what has me at a loss as even I couldn't mix them up. I fear it must be something shorting inside the unit allowing the power to get things going regardless.
Please remember when answering to pitch you replies at the level of a six year old and you wont be far off when it comes to my mechanical knowledge but they do say god like a trier .

Sorry should have said the main lead from the battery has never been connected to the terminal where the braid crosses from the solenoid to the motor only to the main supply connection where I took it off from

monty247 said:

Hi Guinea, Sorry its a Freelander 1 2001 1800 petrol engine. I'm going to have a play with the points above and see if I can rectify it as if I don't sort it soon I fear my other half may torch it while I sleep.


Right I have made sure that no cables are touching any where they shouldn't and they aren't. To connect the starter motor unit up there are only two points. One is the starter motor main supply which runs from the battery direct to the unit via a crimped o ring which is then bolted on. The second is the solenoid terminal. there is only one tab that this can go on in fact there is only one tap full stop and even if I disconnect this wire and have only the main power the motor winds up. This is what has me at a loss as even I couldn't mix them up. I fear it must be something shorting inside the unit allowing the power to get things going regardless.
Please remember when answering to pitch you replies at the level of a six year old and you wont be far off when it comes to my mechanical knowledge but they do say god like a trier .

Sorry should have said the main lead from the battery has never been connected to the terminal where the braid crosses from the solenoid to the motor only to the main supply connection where I took it off from

Click to expand...

If that is the case - try one thing first - then take the starter back - - although you will be taking the starter back I am sure -
I am just interested in the result for future reference - also mate - don't sell yourself short ! - seriously ! - you are definitely competent ! - most diy mechanics would have given up long ago - we learn by experimenting - and sometimes failing to achieve the desired result - that's how we all learn (learnt) - I would seriously give yourself a pat on the back for having the guts to dive in !.
What you are effectively doing is proving that the 'replacement' starter is faulty so you - first- know that - second - can tell the place you got it from what is happening. !
Presuming you have done everything as you have described - which I am sure you have ! - disconnect the small cable - the solenoid activation cable (that is - as you say - one of two cables only - and this is the the much smaller one we are talking about ! )- does the same thing happen ? - if not - then it points to a definite problem with the starter activation circuit in the vehicle- but at the same time also tells us that the starter motor is probably faulty. - (depending on the second test which we can come to later)

There is a second test (as discussed above) - if removing the small cable stops the starter spinning - but we will come to that depending on the results of the test of removing the small solenoid activation cable. - that test will determine if there is a ring gear issue - the ring gear is the toothed drive wheel that is fitted to the engine flywheel that the starter engages with - again - unlikely - very very highly unlikely !!!!- - that would mean two seemingly independent faults at the same time - however - they could potentially be connected if the previous starter was - for some time - permanently engaged due to a solenoid supply issue -

Bottom line -- remove the solenoid activation wire - the Small one - and try again - then report back! - don't do anything else apart from that just yet.
Joe

Ah, it would appear I missed your part of the post that said - "even of I disconnect the wire it still spins up"

In that case - the starter motor is definitely faulty - take it back !