Bump · Oct 28, 2014

If i take my starter motor off, connect to battery it works perfectly.

If i put starter motor on, connect to battery it won't start. starter motor solenoid clicks in, not a lot else, occasional sluggish sound of it trying to turn, but, not a lot.

Engine cranks over using socket on front pulley so nothing seized.

So, what do i try next? If it works off but not on, what's changing?

blue beasty · Oct 28, 2014

Battery/engine/chassis earth?

Tuskenraider · Oct 28, 2014

Mine did that, figured it was the fact it would work with no load but didnt have the guts to turn the engine over. Put another on and its fine

Bump · Oct 28, 2014

blue beasty said:
Battery/engine/chassis earth?

Connecting directly to it (all be it via jump leads) when on so by passing all vehicle electrics and still the same (actually it causes the heavy duty jump leads to smoke :/ )

Tuskenraider said:
Mine did that, figured it was the fact it would work with no load but didnt have the guts to turn the engine over. Put another on and its fine

Ah bugger, i didn't want to hear that - i've just paid to have a new solenoid put on it

blue beasty · Oct 28, 2014

Easy to check if it's an earth issue. Just run a jump lead from battery -ve to a decent place on the engine.

Another possibility is corrosion in the main feed cable which increases resistance, you can check that with a jump lead from battery +ve anorl though getting a croc clip on the starter connection is usually interesting

Propman · Oct 28, 2014

Bump said:
Connecting directly to it (all be it via jump leads) when on so by passing all vehicle electrics and still the same (actually it causes the heavy duty jump leads to smoke :/ )

You're drawing some serious amounts of current there.

blue beasty · Oct 28, 2014

Bump said:
Connecting directly to it (all be it via jump leads) when on so by passing all vehicle electrics and still the same (actually it causes the heavy duty jump leads to smoke :/ )

Ah bugger, i didn't want to hear that - i've just paid to have a new solenoid put on it

Ah, just caught up with your posts.

Does sound like the starters fooked

nrgserv · Oct 28, 2014

I usually bench test and try and stall it with a lump of wood by ramming it into the drive gear while running.
causes plenty of smoke and looks a bit heath robinson, but found a few I could stall before fitting to motor!
possible a weak brush spring/crud in brush holders. current flows but your getting limited magnetic fields to turn under load.

Bump · Oct 28, 2014

Cheers, definitely sounds like my starter is dead then

Ah well, least i have a spare solenoid now! Always a silver lining!

The Mad Hat Man · Oct 28, 2014

£50 to get it refurbed

brian47 · Oct 29, 2014

The motor being able to spin up with no load but stalling under load with excessive current being drawn certainly sounds like you have some of the turns of wire inside it, on the armature have gone short circuit. It's a fairly well known fault which can happen with any device where there are loads of wire wound very closely together, such as motors, generators and transformers.
The only options are to either replace the starter motor or to get it refurbished and the armature rewound.

Bump · Oct 29, 2014

The Mad Hat Man said:
£50 to get it refurbed

£100 get's me a brand new one delivered to the door...

brian47 said:
The motor being able to spin up with no load but stalling under load with excessive current being drawn certainly sounds like you have some of the turns of wire inside it, on the armature have gone short circuit. It's a fairly well known fault which can happen with any device where there are loads of wire wound very closely together, such as motors, generators and transformers.
The only options are to either replace the starter motor or to get it refurbished and the armature rewound.

Thanks for the explanaiton. Being an Engineer i like technical explanations

nrgserv · Oct 29, 2014

Bump said:
£100 get's me a brand new one delivered to the door...

Thanks for the explanaiton. Being an Engineer i like technical explanations

wallop it with a cranking 'andle, see it it clouts the brushes back onto the com

Bump · Oct 29, 2014

nrgserv said:
wallop it with a cranking 'andle, see it it clouts the brushes back onto the com

I dropped it onto my face... is that the same kinda thing?

nrgserv · Oct 29, 2014

Bump said:
I dropped it onto my face... is that the same kinda thing?

kinda meant while it was still attached to motor, in the engaged position with the key

but hey, if it helps diagnose the fault, use yer head

Datatek · Oct 31, 2014

brian47 said:
The motor being able to spin up with no load but stalling under load with excessive current being drawn certainly sounds like you have some of the turns of wire inside it, on the armature have gone short circuit. It's a fairly well known fault which can happen with any device where there are loads of wire wound very closely together, such as motors, generators and transformers.
The only options are to either replace the starter motor or to get it refurbished and the armature rewound.

Bump said:
£100 get's me a brand new one delivered to the door...

Thanks for the explanaiton. Being an Engineer i like technical explanations

It's also not unknown for play in the bearings to allow the armature to contact the field coils when under load, happened on my tractor.

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blue beasty

Leaks an prone to bits dropping off

Tuskenraider

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blue beasty

Leaks an prone to bits dropping off

Propman

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blue beasty

Leaks an prone to bits dropping off

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The Mad Hat Man

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brian47

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