Rougharse Racing · Dec 11, 2018

If it is a 300tdi with factory immobiliser, the rear of the fuel solenoid should not be readily accessible, they should have a cover with threeblack wires leading to it, (at least the Discovery ones do) has yours been modified? It could be that someone has started to partially bypass a troublesome immobiliser.
I wouldn't rely on any cut-out switch to the fuel solenoid as security on a tdi or earlier diesel, because the first thing a thief will do is wire a positive feed directfom an under bonnet live to the fuel solenoid.

Kwakerman · Dec 11, 2018

19_Hue_95 said:
Cheers for the help ladies and gents, a little update. I have cleaned and tightened the connection, and that seemed to work - well that problem has not re-occurred for a little while (touch wood) BUT a new problem has started and I have a little feeling it’s linked. So here goes, Volume 2:

Last week I pulled up in the car park to get breakfast on the way to the quarry and when I got in and started there was nothing, like before, dead as a doornail. So I fiddled with the wire and still nothing, but when I turned the key a little icon (a car with a key inside it – I now know it’s the immobiliser light) appeared on the dash, I have never seen it before or since.

In the heat of the moment I did what any agitated landy mechanic does and hit things until it worked – I found disconnecting the battery and reconnecting worked, anyway we started and on the way we went.

Once on site I had a little play and noticed the following, when I turned the key all the way, there was nothing, but when released, it started. This is about the same time I realised I am in trouble. About an hour later I came back to the landy to move it back to the office, it turned over, but would not start.

Cut a long story short (and an ever longer journey being towed behind a CAT D9 through a quarry), I realised it was the fuel system as it would not bump start. So piece by piece I removed it until I found the culprit – Fuel stop solenoid, I removed the pin inside and away we went. The catch is I now can only stop the engine by stalling, which is less than ideal.

As I was working away at the time I went to a local 4x4 garage that got a new stop solenoid for me, they replaced the part, but it would still not turn over. Get the multi-meter out on it and you find it’s only drawing 9v instead of 12v – hence the reason why it is not opening.

The garages immediate thought was immobiliser (get the circuit diagram out and you can see that the stop solenoid feeds straight into the immobiliser spider), this makes sense to me because of the issues I had in the car park that morning.

As far as I am aware the spider is buried in the dash somewhere, so I am loathed to rip it all out and it not be that issue. I am going to ask my local mechanic what he thinks as I am not altogether sure yet. But I feel if this is the problem then I have two solutions – 1) add my own live feed from solenoid to ignition and bypass spider, 2) use Landrover spider bypass to well, bypass the spider (would this work?!).

Read post 4 & 7

, immobiliser relays do fuel and starter and suffer from dry joints!

zeaphod · Dec 12, 2018

You would be better running a wire from the back of the ignition switch - from the switched live. That way it will cut the fuel supply when you turn the key off.

discomania · Dec 12, 2018

19_Hue_95 said:
Once home I had a think, the most logical solution I came to was a duff battery. My partner (who doubts everything I do with the landrover - rightly so sometimes!) insisted she must take it to KwikFit for a battery check. Sure enough they said that "the battery is on its way out as it drops to 10v when you turn it over" and the replacement will be £180. I told her I would sort it myself as I am refusing to pay there ransom price. Playing with the pickup trucks at work, I whacked a volt meter on a few and sure enough, the voltage dropped on all of them to 10v / 10.5v / 11v respectfully. So I dont think its that.

Oh, she is one of them - who think KwikFit are a good option! Watch her carefully.

I wouldn't even take my car there for tyres given the rubbish they try. I once paid and booked my car in online for 2 tyres, they would not fit the tyres unless they could do a stupid 50 point inspection on my car and wanted loads of details from me. Now I had bought and paid for these tyres, I just wanted them fitted. I told him nicely I didn't need that service, but thanks, he said it was for safety, I said, it was MoTed last week and is very well maintained, he still "needed" to do his checks. So I told him I was going to jack the car up in their car-park and give them only the wheels they needed he told me they could not do that. I phoned the call centre there and then, in front of a whole room of customers and told them I was in a branch who refused to do what I was asking them to do and if they would not I wanted an immediate refund.

I left with a full refund!

KwikFit are a collection of muppets in a KwikFit shirt with only one aim - to hit a sales target.

I know a lot about KwikFit and their ineptitude, don't trust anything they say or do and get your partner re-programmed to realise that places like this and main dealers are the worst option usually - our local VW dealer has 1 mechanic and 10 apprentices - yet people take their car to VW to get a "Good workmanship and they know what they are doing" HA HA HA. You want to see the state of my wifes VW when we bought it from them (it has NEVER been back and never will in our ownership) - they did the timing belt prior to it being sold to us and I don't think anything was put back together properly - the inter-cooler pipes were all loose and one was not even fully home allowing a massive boost leak.

Rant over - plenty people are helping you on the starting issues so I will not chip in just now as it looks like you have plenty to go on for now.

19_Hue_95 · Dec 12, 2018

Rougharse Racing said:
If it is a 300tdi with factory immobiliser, the rear of the fuel solenoid should not be readily accessible, they should have a cover with threeblack wires leading to it, (at least the Discovery ones do) has yours been modified? It could be that someone has started to partially bypass a troublesome immobiliser.
I wouldn't rely on any cut-out switch to the fuel solenoid as security on a tdi or earlier diesel, because the first thing a thief will do is wire a positive feed directfom an under bonnet live to the fuel solenoid.

Its the factory immobiliser. I hear there are two types, one where the spider unit is buried in the dash, the other where its in the battery compartment. I honestly haven't looked (its Saturdays job!) but I have a feeling (well I am hoping) its in the battery compartment. the solenoid itself is just screws in with a spade terminal clipped to the top, I cant remember how many wires now, but I think it was only one. Your probably right on that one, I try and keep by security measures all 'manual' i.e. pedal safe, its one reason I am not too bothered about bypassing the immobiliser, the only person it will inconvenience is me.

zeaphod said:
You would be better running a wire from the back of the ignition switch - from the switched live. That way it will cut the fuel supply when you turn the key off.

True, is that easy enough to do? Electronics are my weak area.

discomania said:
Oh, she is one of them - who think KwikFit are a good option! Watch her carefully.

Hahaha! Yeah she is 'one of those'!! It kinda annoys me sometimes, granted I am no mechanic, but when you spend long enough solving a problem you know more about it than a mechanic who spent a quick 5 mins - but she refuses to accept as he is a 'professional' and knows best that which has led to a few arguments! Best one was a year or so ago, she had a rattle in the exhaust system on her Honda somewhere and I told her I would solve it. But she wanted 'the professional' to do it, they charged her a few hundred quid, but sure enough rattle solved - that was until a few days later rear lights didn't work, all they had done was remove a heat shroud, the loose wires then sat on top of the exhaust, plastic melted and it shorted out on the exhaust. Of course, I kept my smug face to myself! I know I am being mean picking on her and to be honest she is not that bad, but we all really have to be careful of people out to pull the wool over out eyes.

I am sorry to hear about your issue with KwikFit, I have heard a few people have similar and to be honest I have never really had any reason to go there myself. The local mechanic we use for all our vehicles (and landorver when its beyond me!) charges a fair bit but he is honest and does what I ask for with no extra surprises. Heck he even sent me packing one afternoon telling me the job was easy and I could do the job cheaper than he could.

zeaphod · Dec 12, 2018

19_Hue_95 said:
True, is that easy enough to do? Electronics are my weak area.

Like anything, easy if you know what you are doing. If you are going to own a Tratter for a while you're going to need a few electrical skills.

19_Hue_95 · Jan 3, 2019

Just so you are aware, and for anyone else who has a similar problem – I have now managed to solve this issue. It was indeed the immobiliser.

I hacked my way into the immobiliser (an epic saga in its own right of which I now have a permanent scar on my hand to show for it) and quickly spotted that one the solder side of the board one terminal was pretty much blown (all black and sooty) and another was cracked and dubious looking.

I was tempted to solder it back up but I have a feeling a few months down the line the problem will rear its head again, so I purchased a 300tdi immobiliser bypass (I could not find a Defender one so got a Disco one – I guess there the same!?) whacked it in and away we went. 12v of lovely electric making it way to the fuel solenoid.

Actually trying to get the fuel solenoid off to get the pin and spring back in was a nightmare, the garage who tried to replace it last time has well and truly rounded it off.

After a few hours or rounding it off more myself I realised it was a pump off job. But once that was done it all worked. Touch wood neither of the problems have or will happened again! Cheers for all your help guys in helping me sort this!

Rougharse Racing

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Kwakerman

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zeaphod

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discomania

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19_Hue_95

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zeaphod

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19_Hue_95

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