300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
Or any Land Rover/4x4 for that matter?
Ultimately I cannot tell you either way. There are many reasons why you might want to lift a vehicle or why you might not want too.
However I can share some thoughts on the matter and hopefully demonstrate some of the Pros.
Lifting a vehicle can be done by many different ways, however in this example it is my 4.6 V8 p38 Range Rover.
Having owned this vehicle on the factory air suspension and now on a coil setup. I feel reasonably well versed to give some thoughts on the matter.
First up, remember lifting a vehicle will have implications. However there are likely to be positive and negative implications. So it is worth considering all of them. As well as the vehicle in question.
This, or rather was my Range Rover with the air suspension, this is in its normal ride height.
And how it is now with the lift.
So let's talk about the elephant in the room. As this is a p38, it had factory EAS (air suspension). Now the air suspension was one of the reasons for buying my p38 believe it or not. My Mrs doesn't like climbing into my pickup Land Rover, so this was to be a more civilised 4x4 that she would go in. At least that was the plan initially.
And for a number of years it worked out fine and the EAS behaved itself. However, it has to be said. The EAS has some rather major short comings in regards to the p38.
I also found out, that should an air spring catastrophically fail, you will be pretty much buggered off road. The plastic cup decided to part ways with the rubber sleeve in an explosive fashion while cross axled. Sadly this causes all 4 corners to plummet to bump stops.
The air suspension is only part of it however. In the case of the p38, it has a relatively long wheelbase and a largish rear overhang. The standard tyres are also on the smaller side of things. The result is, a vehicle with a moderately poor breakover angle, worse departure angle and a not too bright approach angle. A shame as the basic suspension is rather good off road.
Now my p38 being equipped with mud flaps and side steps puts itself at a further disadvantage. However the above concerns would result in the vehicle becoming beached very easily, sitting on the chassis rails. The sidesteps were knocked loose and spent way too much time in contact with the ground.
If you had the rear towbar installed, it would impact the ground frequently due to the poor departure angle and long over hang. In fact this was the also damaging to the stock bumper.
The front faired a bit better, but even the owners manual tells you to remove the lower lip of the bumper if you are off roading. So it was always vulnerable.
Overall, as an 'off road' vehicle. This p38 has some shortcomings.
I decided to address some of these by getting some off road tyres. Nothing crazy, only a little bigger than standard.
However this is where the air suspension can bite you in the arse! Which it did. Failure after failure saw it on the bump stops, however with the slightly taller tyres they now hit the inner arch, making the vehicle near to impossible to use.
I did really want to keep the air suspension, but after too much effort, time & money. I threw the towl in and went for a coil conversion kit.
I opted for a +30mm kit from Bearmach, however as you can see from the pics at the top of this post. The lift was more like 3-4" over the standard ride height. However that is another story....
What I can say about the lift is. The p38 no longer wollowys and leans like it did with the air suspension. And off road it rides no worse or slightly better than the extended height on the EAS. On road of course the CoG has changed, but overall it feels better in the corners. The rear springs are too stiff and give a poor ride however in some scenarios. Some new shocks and bushes may improve this however.
So to the crux of this thread. Was lifting the vehicle worth it, despite the lift being far more extreme than originally planned?
Well, I have always been a big believer in keeping a 4x4 as low as possible for stability. And ensuring you maintain good droop and compression suspension travel. However, I think the wheelbase of the vehicle in question and the size of tyres it is running makes a huge difference to this view. For example, a standard Defender should be on 31-32" tall tyres. The 90 has a short wheel base and good overhangs. It really doesn't need lifting to be capable.
The p38 on the other hand would be on 29" tall tyres, big over hangs and a long wheelbase.
So in the case of the latter, the p38. Lifting it has done wonders off road.
The breakover angle is vastly improved:
As you can see the side step is close to the ground. If the vehicle was on 29" tyres and a few inches lower, it would be grounded here. In fact I know it would because it used to on this very spot. Remember the chassis rails hang lower than the side steps do.
Front and rear of the terrain from the above pic:
A more extreme example. This is at the top of a slope. Previously it would completely stop the Range Rover unless going rather quickly. Worse when dry out and the ground hard. It would sit on the chassis beached.
Now though, the steps look very very close to the ground:
But I was able to stop, jump out, take some photos, jump back in and drive forward without any bother. Pre lift this was a challenging obstacle.
Since lift I have also not impacted the rear bumper at all, nor the tow bar.
Although you can see how close the towbar still gets.
And I feel much more happy that I'm not going to rip the front bumper off either.
The suspension still seems to flex pretty well too. I think comparable to the air springs by and large.
And no rubbing either, the standard tyres used to rub at the rear near the chassis rail. The mud terrains are on slightly wider off set rims.
I think some longer rear shocks would benefit the setup overall.
Maybe on the front too.
However I would say, while I'm not 100% happy with the rear axles ride on road (it is acceptable, but not ideal). Overall a large lift like this has dramatically improved the p38 off road. So my view in this instance would be, YES a lift is a good thing and was worth doing.
Some more off pics:
Ultimately I cannot tell you either way. There are many reasons why you might want to lift a vehicle or why you might not want too.
However I can share some thoughts on the matter and hopefully demonstrate some of the Pros.
Lifting a vehicle can be done by many different ways, however in this example it is my 4.6 V8 p38 Range Rover.
Having owned this vehicle on the factory air suspension and now on a coil setup. I feel reasonably well versed to give some thoughts on the matter.
First up, remember lifting a vehicle will have implications. However there are likely to be positive and negative implications. So it is worth considering all of them. As well as the vehicle in question.
This, or rather was my Range Rover with the air suspension, this is in its normal ride height.
And how it is now with the lift.
So let's talk about the elephant in the room. As this is a p38, it had factory EAS (air suspension). Now the air suspension was one of the reasons for buying my p38 believe it or not. My Mrs doesn't like climbing into my pickup Land Rover, so this was to be a more civilised 4x4 that she would go in. At least that was the plan initially.
And for a number of years it worked out fine and the EAS behaved itself. However, it has to be said. The EAS has some rather major short comings in regards to the p38.
- When in the lowered motorway mode the suspension is too soft
- When in the normal ride height mode the ride is worse than the lowered motorway mode
- In both modes the vehicle leans and rolls excessively, especially on initial turn in. Such a shame Land Rover never saw fit to equip the p38 with superbly brilliant ACE system from the Discovery 2!
- When in the extended off road height the vehicle rides terribly and is horrid and bouncy
I also found out, that should an air spring catastrophically fail, you will be pretty much buggered off road. The plastic cup decided to part ways with the rubber sleeve in an explosive fashion while cross axled. Sadly this causes all 4 corners to plummet to bump stops.
The air suspension is only part of it however. In the case of the p38, it has a relatively long wheelbase and a largish rear overhang. The standard tyres are also on the smaller side of things. The result is, a vehicle with a moderately poor breakover angle, worse departure angle and a not too bright approach angle. A shame as the basic suspension is rather good off road.
Now my p38 being equipped with mud flaps and side steps puts itself at a further disadvantage. However the above concerns would result in the vehicle becoming beached very easily, sitting on the chassis rails. The sidesteps were knocked loose and spent way too much time in contact with the ground.
If you had the rear towbar installed, it would impact the ground frequently due to the poor departure angle and long over hang. In fact this was the also damaging to the stock bumper.
The front faired a bit better, but even the owners manual tells you to remove the lower lip of the bumper if you are off roading. So it was always vulnerable.
Overall, as an 'off road' vehicle. This p38 has some shortcomings.
I decided to address some of these by getting some off road tyres. Nothing crazy, only a little bigger than standard.
However this is where the air suspension can bite you in the arse! Which it did. Failure after failure saw it on the bump stops, however with the slightly taller tyres they now hit the inner arch, making the vehicle near to impossible to use.
I did really want to keep the air suspension, but after too much effort, time & money. I threw the towl in and went for a coil conversion kit.
I opted for a +30mm kit from Bearmach, however as you can see from the pics at the top of this post. The lift was more like 3-4" over the standard ride height. However that is another story....
What I can say about the lift is. The p38 no longer wollowys and leans like it did with the air suspension. And off road it rides no worse or slightly better than the extended height on the EAS. On road of course the CoG has changed, but overall it feels better in the corners. The rear springs are too stiff and give a poor ride however in some scenarios. Some new shocks and bushes may improve this however.
So to the crux of this thread. Was lifting the vehicle worth it, despite the lift being far more extreme than originally planned?
Well, I have always been a big believer in keeping a 4x4 as low as possible for stability. And ensuring you maintain good droop and compression suspension travel. However, I think the wheelbase of the vehicle in question and the size of tyres it is running makes a huge difference to this view. For example, a standard Defender should be on 31-32" tall tyres. The 90 has a short wheel base and good overhangs. It really doesn't need lifting to be capable.
The p38 on the other hand would be on 29" tall tyres, big over hangs and a long wheelbase.
So in the case of the latter, the p38. Lifting it has done wonders off road.
The breakover angle is vastly improved:
As you can see the side step is close to the ground. If the vehicle was on 29" tyres and a few inches lower, it would be grounded here. In fact I know it would because it used to on this very spot. Remember the chassis rails hang lower than the side steps do.
Front and rear of the terrain from the above pic:
A more extreme example. This is at the top of a slope. Previously it would completely stop the Range Rover unless going rather quickly. Worse when dry out and the ground hard. It would sit on the chassis beached.
Now though, the steps look very very close to the ground:
But I was able to stop, jump out, take some photos, jump back in and drive forward without any bother. Pre lift this was a challenging obstacle.
Since lift I have also not impacted the rear bumper at all, nor the tow bar.
Although you can see how close the towbar still gets.
And I feel much more happy that I'm not going to rip the front bumper off either.
The suspension still seems to flex pretty well too. I think comparable to the air springs by and large.
And no rubbing either, the standard tyres used to rub at the rear near the chassis rail. The mud terrains are on slightly wider off set rims.
I think some longer rear shocks would benefit the setup overall.
Maybe on the front too.
However I would say, while I'm not 100% happy with the rear axles ride on road (it is acceptable, but not ideal). Overall a large lift like this has dramatically improved the p38 off road. So my view in this instance would be, YES a lift is a good thing and was worth doing.
Some more off pics:
