B

bryan bush

Member
Hi all,

Just looking at doing a bit of market research with fellow series Land Rover owners.

I am in the middle of developing a brand new security device which with a turn of a key locks the transmission solid on a series land rover, preventing the vehicle from being driven, towed or dragged away. ie stolen!

Actuating the device will lock the rear output and with the 4wd selector depressed it will lock the front output also. in essence creating a 4 wheel lock up. the device also stops the high low range lever from de-selecting 4wd.

The device is a mechanical CNC mechined assembly made from stainless, brass and aluminium and fits to the transfer box where the rear inspection plate goes. Once installed the actuator passed through the seatbox and uses a bespoke machined key to actuate it.

I plan to have a batch of 50 kits manufactured to start with and each kit comprises if the main actuator assembly. 2 x locking keys, 4 mounting bolts and a gasket.

Each kit works out at around £280

My question is do you think there is a market for such a device at that cost.

All feedback greatfully received.
 
No. It's too intrusive a device and impacts on the provenance of the vehicle. Security is a personal issue.
 
John S said:
No. It's too intrusive a device and impacts on the provenance of the vehicle. Security is a personal issue.
Click to expand...

Hi john,

Please can you explain?

Intrusive in what way? my aim is to make a device which is descreate when fitted and requires only a hole to be drilled in the seat box to install.

Regards

Bryan
 
For me £280 is too expensive for a security device. Only 8 nuts to undo both prop shafts - equivalent of removing two road wheels time and hassle wise - 10 minutes later and can be winched on to a recovery truck or towed / pushed away.
 
Land Raver said:
For me £280 is too expensive for a security device. Only 8 nuts to undo both prop shafts - equivalent of removing two road wheels time and hassle wise - 10 minutes later and can be winched on to a recovery truck or towed / pushed away.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that...
Understand that removing the props means you can move the vehicle.

But in reality how many thieves set out to remove props from cars there trying to steel? Never mind coming armed with the tools to do such a job.
Also experience says you can't actually get to all the prop bolts without turning the flange, something this device stops so that would make it a tricky task.

I'm not saying it's not impossible but most land Rover thefts are driven away or towed to a place where they can be jump started and driven away.

If the device is as discrete as I hope then the thieves will not even know it's installed.

Thanks for your feedback regarding the cost.. this is one thing which is tricky to set. machining precision parts in this country is a costly exercise and I did not want to manufacture a flimsy product which looks and feels cheap. I wanted a robust. bomb proof device which will do its job no mater what the end user throws at it.

I appreciate your comments.
 
Plenty of security devices in that price range but too rich for me. Only an anchor to the floor can stop a car being towed even if the wheels are locked.
There are products on the market to lock transmission like the rat trap but I have no idea how popular they are. Out of curiosity I would like to know the safeguards in place to stop the scrote smashing ones gear/transfer box gears to bits trying to drive it away with a portion of it locked up.
 
Bobsticle said:
Plenty of security devices in that price range but too rich for me. Only an anchor to the floor can stop a car being towed even if the wheels are locked.
There are products on the market to lock transmission like the rat trap but I have no idea how popular they are. Out of curiosity I would like to know the safeguards in place to stop the scrote smashing ones gear/transfer box gears to bits trying to drive it away with a portion of it locked up.
Click to expand...
 
Yes I have been reading up on spinneys rat trap product.. achieves the same result on a defender model but done a completely different way.

I am currently testing the prototype and the results show that if you try and drive the vehicle away with the device locked it simply stalls the engine so no damage is done to the transfer box.
We have not got to the Tow away test yet.. that will be done over the next few weeks.

As I say I am still developing the product and it has already gone through many design changes to improve it's performance.

Regards

Bryan
 
What stops it accidentally engaging whilst you are driving your landrover?
Propshafts is the long way to defeat it pull a half shaft on rear remove a drive flange bolts on front.
 
Could be an expensive stage in development, testing till destruction. Id hate to spend £300 and get a £3000 bill for a new gearbox on the first attempted theft..

Land Rovers do skid quite well onto a low loader. At least our old one did many years ago when it all seized up and had to be transported to the garage.

Its good that people are still developing new things for the old beasts I wish you all the best of luck with it.
 
Oh and remember. An MOT tester can destroy a gearbox if he tests the hand brake on a rolling road. They aint that strong. Hate to think what full revs and a dropped clutch could do :eek:
 
£280, that's more than mine is worth :D

too expensive imho, as said a valuable landy would just be lifted onto a truck they have been lifted over fences etc, there are many cheaper ways of deterring the passing opportunist
 
bryan bush said:
Hi john,

Please can you explain?

Intrusive in what way? my aim is to make a device which is descreate when fitted and requires only a hole to be drilled in the seat box to install.

Regards

Bryan
Click to expand...

It's bolted into the transmission and I for one do not like that.
 
Thanks for all the comments.

It's info like this that help develop a product that the end user will want.

To answer a few questions... we have done the high engine test 3K revs and dropped the clutch to see if it failed.... nope just stalls the engine. bear in mind you are not dropping a part into a spinning component... the part is already engaged so the only part moving is the clutch.

When I say the device bolts to the transmission. it's a one time fit... you don't have to keep taking it on and off.. just activate it with the key provided with the kit.

No security device is 100% fool proof and you could say that removing a steering wheel gets around a crook lock. alarms no one pays any attention too and I have trackers fitted to my vehicles. but for £300 not a chance...

I have designed the mechanism in such a way that it can not accidently be activated whilst driving. The prototype has spent hours on a vibration shaker to ensure that no mater what is thrown at it. it can only be looked with intention and not by it's own means.

Development is a expensive process.. I see that my stash of transfer boxes is going to be depleted but I would rather that then send a product out on the market which could do more damage then good.

I wish I could share some photos of what I have developed to so far but I can't at this stage.

If enough interest is generated then the cost may reduce but CNC machining precession components from high grade materials in the UK is expensive. I am not prepared to compromise on the quality of this item and one of my pet hates is parts which look and feel cheep and are expensive to buy.

Thanks all.
 
One of the biggest mistakes in developing a product can be secrecy. In a niche market it is unlikely you will attract competitors as profits will be small and not worth chasing by larger companies. The benefits of sharing ideas with like minded people will outweigh ten fold the issues.
Few people will nip to the garage and fire up their CNC machine to copy it and if a CNC machine can be avoided and something similar can be knocked together by a competent home engineer people will question the need for an expensive manufacturing process. Finding the balance between price, appearance and functionality is the key.
In my humble opinion the target market are tinkerers. Thats why they put up with old cars in the first place. They have very little respect for high end engineering (they like series Land Rovers) and they are romantics who love old school bang and clunk basics. If I was developing a similar product with such a customer base I would prioritise its benefits as. It works, its simple, it will save you money. If you make it easier to buy one than knock one up yourself you are onto a winner and will sell them all day long, as long as a simple bypass isnt worked out by the scrote population. I.E. slipping out a drive shaft and hub so the vehicle freewheels.
Your biggest enemy will be launching it in secret for everyone to say, what a great idea, I'll go and knock one of them up out of that lump hammer head and a key barrel, now wheres mi angle grinder. If you want to make money out of this project you have to look at it from the outside, not an easy thing to do with ones own baby.

Once again, Ruddy good luck with it.
 
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