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Bob Pate

Member
I am a new member to this site. I have recently purchased a 1983 series 3 diesel. It has a good galvanised chassis and I have completed all the welding and restoration work but now face the engine. It runs but there is so much black smoke I cant see the Sun!!
I have carried out a number of tests and have come to the conclusion that I either spend lots of money on it or replace..
If I did replace the engine, what Diesel engine would be the best option? What work would be necessary to make it fit? I am not a boy racer I just want an economical run around.

Hope you can help

Bob
 
I've no experience of it but the 2.5 NAD would be the next logical step, minimal work to fit, cheap to buy , looks period and a bit more power.
The 200 and 300 TDI will fit also but are more work.
There is a turbo version of the 2.5NAD but best avoided.
All the above are Landrover engines btw, incase you didn't know.
Avoid non Landrover engine conversions, most were better than pre TDI engines but spares can be a pita.
Nearly every thing is available for LR engines off the shelf.
Keep your old 2 1/4 though, as these things get older they become more valuable and with the original engine, even more so.
 
If you intend keeping it long term, and if you are interested in originality, then repair your 2.25 - otherwise, as Flossie says, the 2.5 NA is the next logical step - but IMHO, it depends what you want from your LR.... If you were happy with the 2.25 before the smoke, then rebuild it by all means....

Original vehicles are always worth more, so deffo keep the 2.25 for the future value of the vehicle.

You could make just about any engine fit.... you might choose a V8 for the sound and driveability in a vehicle which won't do a lot of miles.... ( or LPG it to do more miles )...

The 300 Tdi is a fine engine, and will fit in a series, with some work, and some money on various bits; info here ( no affiliation and there will be other suppliers too )

https://www.steveparkers.com/conver...gine-conversion-kits-into-series-land-rovers/

:)
 
Have a 200 DI in my SWB goes like stink on 205 tyres , engine is a discovery 200tdi fitted without a turbo. Only down side is with direct injection engine is noiser than the 2,5 N/A that I removed.
 
Lots of options as others have said. The 2.5 NAD will be the easiest fit but only marginally better than the 2.25.

If yours is just black smoking a lot I suspect it may not be quite as knackered as you think.

The 2.5 TD mentioned earlier would be an easy swap too in many respects and would offer a significant boost in performance. Personally I don't agree that they should be avoided. I know of plenty that run great despite 160,000+ miles on the clock.

I'd avoid the 300Tdi it really will be a big project. A 200tdi is much easier and offers exactly the same everything as the 300. That said a Any Tdi swap is still quite a project and more than just a bolt in.

And without wishing to upset the poster above. I think a 200 Di without the Turbo is about the most pointless swap you can do, unless you live in certain parts of Europe where you can't fit the Turbo.

A Di at best is going to be producing just about be same performance as a 2.5NAd and way behind a 2.5 TD. But will cost more than either of the these and be a more complicated swap. And besides retaining the turbo on a 200Tdi swap in an 88 is easy.
 
Oh should also add. You could swap in a petrol. A 2.25 would be easy as would the latter 2.5p, which is actually a really nice engine.

The petrol will be a lot smoother and a lot quieter than the diesels. But they will be less frugal on fuel. However don't think any of the diesels are going to be super economical. They aren't. But they will offer maybe 8-10mpg more than the petrols. The least economical diesel is the 2.25.

Other engine swaps. Well I've always thought the Rover T Series 2.0 16v would make a lovely engine in a Series. More torque lower down than the 2.25 petrol. More power than a 300Tdi and lighter. And probably similar mpg to a 2.25d.

The T-Series was used in the Discvoery Mpi. So would keep it all 'Land Rover'.

V8's are nice. But quite a major project to swap in.

In past times the Perkins diesel was a common swap in Series. But less popular these days. However it means the brilliant L-Series as used in the Freelander should be possible. But would require some R&D to achieve.
 
X1 as Disco says try to keep originality. How about a straight swop out with a refurbished 2.25 petrol. It's pretty straightforward if you can source an engine. You'd need to fit a choke. Diesel engines are becoming an issue especially older engines . You can keep the same fuel tank etc. You'd need to source a complete petrol setup including carb, air filter and pipe work. If you've got the dosh you could get an old petrol engine completely refurbished - various companies offer that.
 
Have you checked the oil level. It hasn't just been overfilled has it? Long shot but easy to check.
 
Diesel is unfortunately a dirty word. Unless you are aiming for 100% originality (like what I'm up to at the moment) I'd be fitting a 2.25 petrol. I reckon you will "be allowed" to use the vehicle for a tad longer than you will be allowed to use your diesel. However it is just a matter of time before petrol engines are considered to be evil too.

Get the higher compression head though - what's the lower compression one 7:1 or something daft like that? (Sorry - bit of clarity when they were built fuel wasn't "as good" as it is now so the lower compression ratios were more or less what you'd expect back then but these days you get higher octane fuels so why not get the benefit?)
 
Actually come to think of it if battery technology was any good I'd be fitting an electric motor - it is just at the moment batteries are expensive and with all those precious metals probably not good for the planet either...
 
4 star was 98 octane and 5 star 100 octane. Diesel is having a bad time at the minute with a ban on older cars likely but who knows when. Some cities are banning them by 2025.
 
FFG said:
4 star was 98 octane and 5 star 100 octane. Diesel is having a bad time at the minute with a ban on older cars likely but who knows when. Some cities are banning them by 2025.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the way forward seems to be "following the Dutch" when it comes to road transport. When I moved here I was amazed to see all of the stupid ideas in normal practice. I blame TNO in Delft for all of these half baked ideas. Such as traffic lights on the edge of motorway slip roads - effing great big lumps of concrete to divide traffic and make it into trains...

...anyway the current situation in Holland is that Utrecht has banned old diesels and it looks like other cities are going to follow suit. So far not being allowed to drive a diesel in Utrecht has been an additional excuse to avoid that poo hole!

All classic vehicles with diesel engines that are not older than 40 years old are expected to pay the full road tax which for a Land Rover series LWB would be about 2000 euros a year (depends a bit on the province where you live). I think the current thinking is to make owning a diesel engined vehicle as uneconomical as possible. The Dutch government have, however, recently reduced the economical advantages for company vehicles to run hybrid and electric which has meant the "progress" has faltered. Old fashioned petrol engines are now on the rise in Holland (!). Meanwhile elsewhere, Volvo are no longer developing diesel and I think Toyota have followed suit. I expect it won't be long before the majority of people will not be using diesel and it will start to disappear from the forecourts.

Hence my reasoning a petrol 2.25 in a series is probably going to be allowed to be used for a little longer.
 
Dear all, thank you all for your great contribution. I have owned a number of land rovers but all petrol so diesels are an unknown quantity. It was suggested that the black smoke was caused by the injector pump being retarded so I moved the pump one MM clockwise and I now have lots of grey smoke. I assume that is better but to be honest I am out of my depth. I am still thinking the engine has had it but not giving up yet....What would you guys look at next? Where do I start with a diesel.....petrol are so much easier!!!


Best wishes

Bob
 
Bob Pate said:
Dear all, thank you all for your great contribution. I have owned a number of land rovers but all petrol so diesels are an unknown quantity. It was suggested that the black smoke was caused by the injector pump being retarded so I moved the pump one MM clockwise and I now have lots of grey smoke. I assume that is better but to be honest I am out of my depth. I am still thinking the engine has had it but not giving up yet....What would you guys look at next? Where do I start with a diesel.....petrol are so much easier!!!


Best wishes

Bob
Click to expand...
First thing I would do is read through the Green Book on the subject. The diesels are not as complicated as you might think! I know new stuff sometimes seems overwhealming but the only way to git er done is to git er done.
 
Grey/white smoke mean that your timing istoo far retarded and you aren't getting a 'burn'.
Try advancing it 'until it starts knocking' and then back it off a couple of degrees.
See how that does, and let us know.
Pity you don't live near here!
 
I switched from a smoke belching 2.25 diesel that I eventually couldn't get through the emissions tests. It's working well as a permenant yacht mooring though. I have a 2.25 petrol and for sure it's easy to work on and all parts available. Happy chugging!:D
 
This sounds like a set up issue. Blue smoke would indicate engine wear.

Check your air intake is clean / clear - the elephant trunk tubes can delaminate on the inside preventing air getting through. Also check the butterfly mechanism on the intake is opening immediately the throttle is pressed - if it's delayed then this can cause smoke (Ie diesel is injected but insufficient air = smoke. This aside, it may well just be pump adjustment that's needed.

I think it's too early to be even thinking about discarding your engine.
 
Oldseadog said:
Grey/white smoke mean that your timing istoo far retarded and you aren't getting a 'burn'.
Try advancing it 'until it starts knocking' and then back it off a couple of degrees.
See how that does, and let us know.
Pity you don't live near here!
Click to expand...

I would love to live where you are. Just to confirm.....I am turning the pump clockwise to advance, is that correct?

I will try tomorrow and let you know.

Many thanks

Bob
 
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