R

Rodeo Joe

Well-Known Member
I have got a bit of a project in the offing, a series 2 petrol 109 on a military chassis of some sort replaced at some point in the past.
The engine looks pretty shagged but I have got a disco 300 tdi that is a goodun so what I,d like to know is has anybody used one of these sans turbo in a series ?
What I have in mind is getting rid of the turbo, putting on an old def. manifold, changing the front pulleys etc so I can keep the old rad and series 2 front.
I know some of that is feasible but what about all of it?
Any ideas?
Will it blow up?
Cheers RJ
 
I had a look at glencoynes site but can't see any info on a 300tdi going into a series. I'm sure I read something about the front pulleys but can't find it again-slept since then...........
 
Think it was a 300tfi onto a defender box(short bell houseing) This gets the engine back for the grill recesse.

What was/is the problem with the front pulleys?
 
I don't really need the serpentine belt as the power steering pump can come off. I was hoping to replace the other pulleys with ones similar to those on a 200 tdi. That way I can put a series metal fan on instead of the viscous unit.
If theres not a turbo then no intercooler pipes to worry about and a smaller rad will do the job. Hoping to get it to fit with the recessed front still intact.
I just don't know how feasible it is to change the pulleys, I can use an old series alternator so thats not a problem, just the ones on the front of the engine. I can't find anything about the pulley situation and really looking for anybody that knows for sure if its possible.
Got a shed full of bits so hoping to be able to shoe horn it in somehow and as its a complete rebuild I can set it all up before I fix anything permanently.
Oh and I don't want to change anything else -just the engine.
 
I've done this to mine (also military 109 petrol, but S3). I couldn't get hold of a 200tdi at a sensible price. I de-turboed mine, so it is a 300di. It's slow, but then it's a series, so it always was. I did not use a kit - I just made it up as I went along. Some guy in Sweden had a few pictures of his conversion which helped. Some points to consider:
  • moving the front engine mounts to the right place. I had the body off so I did this by mating the engine and gearbox first then lowering onto the gearbox/transfer mounts so that I could fabricate the front mounts correctly
  • the alternator position on the 300tdi puts it too close to the chassis rail. I thought there was enough clearence, but there wasn't smashed the alternator casing. I scalloped the chassis ever so slightly and it's fine now.
  • I didn't bother with a cooling fan. Mine is de-turboed, but the consensus is that it is not necessary. A thin electric one would do the job if need be.
  • Talking of de-turboing, there is some debate as to whether the gearbox and halfshafts will cope with a turboed 300tdi.
  • I kept the PAS pump as an idler and just filled it with grease. It's been fine (though the concept does irk me a little). I looked at re-routing the belt but decided it was not worth it.
  • The bell housing bolt pattern is wrong. IIRC, 9 out of 12 work and you can get another 1 or two as there are blind castings. Either way, I did all the obvious things and it hasn't flown to pieces yet!
I'm happy with my conversion. It is louder, but I've bought some carpet and plan to deaden the roof a little too. Sound proofing the underside of the bonnet and accessible parts of the bulkhead helped greatly.
 
I would think very carefully before changing a vehicle from diesel to petrol. Its not such an issue if its historic but if its not I would keep to petrol. We already have the low Emisson Zones (a scam I know, but an attractive one for local councils), When I lived in Camden they introduced a "Carbon charge" for residents parking, (another scam) but it was based on the DVLA class rate which of course has now gone up one (or 2?) groups for diesels. This charge was £3 per week for residents (ie 150/year). This week our local Tesco has petrol for £1.18p ltr whereas diesel is £1.30. You could go to a lot of effort to devalue your series, make it subject to LEZ charges and pay more road tax. (We should be taking a leaf out of the French - riots over the price of diesel). If you don't do a lot of mileage the runing cost won't be a lot different and when it comes to selling my prediction is petrols will fetch more the diesels. I just did a search on e-bay to compare the prices for 300TDI engines and 2.25 petrol, interesting.
 
I have to confess, this is something that concerns me. I live in the rural north, so less likely to be an issue, but still. I had a worn 2.25 that I was struggling to keep going. The 300tdi was essentially free. At the time it made sense (a few years ago).

Truth be told, I think petrol will shortly be going the same way as diesel... When will we see electric conversion kits on the market?
 
What wrong with the petrol engine? Are you up to a bit of reconditioning? Might be less hassle than a conversion. That said if you follow Grandaddylow's advice it should work well. De turbo'd would reduce strain on the transmission. Has yours got a rear Sailsbury Axle? If so that can cope with more torque than a standard Rover diff.
 
Mine has the Salisbury diff but I think the gearbox would be the issue. I much prefer the way it drives now. Though it could do with a set of those higher ratio transfer gears for high range.
 
I've been investigating a Series - electric conversion, series make good DIY electric vehciles, but the ones I've found have been done in the US. Until its clear how the DVLA treat it it could be an expensive way of shooting myself in the foot if I loose tax exemption and get a Q plate I could spend 1000's to save 100's.
Just found this:
 
This is food for thought, there's an early Range Rover on ebay at the moment with no engine or transmission...

But in the video they refer to using Tesla batteries. They are $100 / KWh at the factory which is probably nearer £100 so that series has £8000 in batteries and the Range Rover rather more plus a good few £1000 in speed controller and motors but there is clearly a nice business converting classic cars.
 
Grandaddylow said:
I've done this to mine (also military 109 petrol, but S3). I couldn't get hold of a 200tdi at a sensible price. I de-turboed mine, so it is a 300di. It's slow, but then it's a series, so it always was. I did not use a kit - I just made it up as I went along. Some guy in Sweden had a few pictures of his conversion which helped. Some points to consider:
  • moving the front engine mounts to the right place. I had the body off so I did this by mating the engine and gearbox first then lowering onto the gearbox/transfer mounts so that I could fabricate the front mounts correctly
  • the alternator position on the 300tdi puts it too close to the chassis rail. I thought there was enough clearence, but there wasn't smashed the alternator casing. I scalloped the chassis ever so slightly and it's fine now.
  • I didn't bother with a cooling fan. Mine is de-turboed, but the consensus is that it is not necessary. A thin electric one would do the job if need be.
  • Talking of de-turboing, there is some debate as to whether the gearbox and halfshafts will cope with a turboed 300tdi.
  • I kept the PAS pump as an idler and just filled it with grease. It's been fine (though the concept does irk me a little). I looked at re-routing the belt but decided it was not worth it.
  • The bell housing bolt pattern is wrong. IIRC, 9 out of 12 work and you can get another 1 or two as there are blind castings. Either way, I did all the obvious things and it hasn't flown to pieces yet!
I'm happy with my conversion. It is louder, but I've bought some carpet and plan to deaden the roof a little too. Sound proofing the underside of the bonnet and accessible parts of the bulkhead helped greatly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, at least I know now that it’s possible. I have a 300 tdi in the yard and a ropey petrol in the 109.
It’s on a military chassis so has Salisbury rear axle, it might be a series 3 chassis, can’t see any numbers on it so could be anything, I,ll have a go with the wire brush when I get time.
It,ll be a total rebuild anyway so no problem moving mounts etc whilst it’s a rolling chassis.
Don’t do a lot of miles so not bothered about diesel vs petrol and is exempt anyway.
 
Last edited:
Rodeo Joe said:
Thanks for the info, at least I know now that it’s possible. I have a 300 tdi in the yard and a ropey petrol in the 109.
It’s on a military chassis so has Salisbury rear axle, it might be a series 3 chassis, can’t see any numbers on it so could be anything, I,ll have a go with the wire brush when I get time.
It,ll be a total rebuild anyway so no problem moving mounts etc whilst it’s a rolling chassis.
Don’t do a lot of miles so not bothered about diesel vs petrol and is exempt anyway.
Click to expand...
Just how 'ropey' is your petrol engine? I am looking for a 5-bearing one for my 1984 ex-military S3 109. it currently has a very good 2 1/4 diesel but i would like to return it to original if I can do so without breaking the bank.
 
Its a series 2 so guessing its 3 bearing anyway. Haven't checked the numbers on it I must admit.
The guy I got it from seemed to think it was ok but I have no idea, he did give me a full gasket set for it !
Its just I have a perfectly good old disco tdi with obviously rusted to bits body, so don't really want to rebuild it for now. If you're interested let me know but its probably not really what you're after.
Just recently it seems petrol engines have gone silly prices, they're nearly as expensive as servo pedal boxes:mad:
 
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