Hi

I am rust repairing my Defender and have moved onto the bulkhead. Can you tell me why my bulkhead outriggers are not inline with each other.

It looks like one side has had a new one welded in but I can't tell if it has been put in wrong, it looks like the original outrigger was cut off inline with the outstide vertical face of the Chassis and then the new part of the outrigger welded in.

Who ever did it left loads of weld wire still stuck on!

I had a look at the manual and it seems to say 4 washers between the outrigger and the bulkhead which is correct on the other side, whch I presume is the original (now rusted through outrigger).


But on the newer welded side it is many more washers off.

It that normal ?

I was going to just buy the rusted outrigger but now I am very confused.

Thanks

Sounds like they didn't have too much luck. The two outriggers should be in line, as otherwise you either need loads of extra washers to bring it back straight(like yours) or your bulkhead would be wonky!

I had guessed that was the case, although there is no evidence of there ever being one in the right place.

Any advice appreciated on how to install a new one in the correct position and inline with the otherside

Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about it, their generally isn't the same amount of washers each side.
As said you're bulkhead would be on the wonk if not. They're used to adjust the door gaps, and well Land Rover being Land Rover no 2 panels are the same and as such all are adjusted individually to suit.
When I rebuilt mine I had 3 in one side and 1 in the other.

Its 1/2 inch difference between them I guess I could leave it I'll have a lokkafter I finish the bulkhead.

Started on the bulkhead YRM had some different holes in their side panels for the footwells. Decided I would try and fabricate my own. Big shout out to TonyBMW on retrorides!

If you have to make some panels, fabrication he has done a load of tutorials on retrorides
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135/panels
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135/panels

Worth a read just to see what he does with a few hand tools, its amazing!

Made one of his sheet benders and set about trying to copy rusted panel.

Its hard! But after much measuring and testing strips to work out bending position. Got one made, its not totally correct needs some beating to get it correct but pretty happy.
Can anyone tell me why I have a large round hole on the front of mine and YRM have 2 holes one being square?

Will hopefully do the other side panel which I hope will be easier, might even make the wh ole footwell if it gets easier.


If not and I get YRM panels do I have to remove the zintec coating on the panels before galvanising?

Frosted said:

Hi

I am rust repairing my Defender and have moved onto the bulkhead. Can you tell me why my bulkhead outriggers are not inline with each other.

It looks like one side has had a new one welded in but I can't tell if it has been put in wrong, it looks like the original outrigger was cut off inline with the outstide vertical face of the Chassis and then the new part of the outrigger welded in.

Who ever did it left loads of weld wire still stuck on!

I had a look at the manual and it seems to say 4 washers between the outrigger and the bulkhead which is correct on the other side, whch I presume is the original (now rusted through outrigger).


But on the newer welded side it is many more washers off.

It that normal ?

I was going to just buy the rusted outrigger but now I am very confused.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Probably a bit late but the Defender 96+ workshop manual has diagrams and gives dimensions / geometry for all the key chassis member positions so may help you figure out where the outrigger differences are. If you don't have a copy of it PM me with an email address and I will send a copy.

On its way

Due to the amount of usefull information I have gathered from this site and weld-forum. I also want to help others by giving a running update with pics on my repairs to my rusty defender.

Also as I am finding it hard to be motivated at the moment. Maybe this will help me get my mojo back!

Long story short went to live in California for 6 years came back and my defender had rusted through:-(

After sitting on the drive with no use I had to save her, everyone said sell for scrap!

No way, after sitting in front of a computer for so long I needed to get my hands dirty.

I borrowed a welder practiced a load, made repairs to my dump irons. Made a bender based on tonybmws plans ( check his posts on retrorides) Decided to use 2mm sheet for footwells, bought a big hammer and gave the bender a dose of steroids.

So this is where I'm at I have made the footwells apart from one more panel.

A auto box and V8 was put in and the garage that did it have butchered the footwells.

I don't know why as there seems to be loads of room, so I am putting the footwells in as far reaching as I can. If anyone has an idea why I shouldn't I would be very kean to know.

I will add pics daily, but things take much longer than I think, although its getting better now.

I will need a lot of advice along the way especially as most of the pictures I took when removing the bulkhead were out of focus!



Rot cut away to reveal more rust



I used acid over night mixed with wallpaper paste and wrapped the whole thing cling film.

Make sure you rinse with baking soda to stop acidic decay( hopefully!)


Make new sheet 2mm box section, weld on with edges just touching for best strength.


Still not sure wether to weld on the end plates as new chassis don't seem to.

Next bulkhead, as can see pretty bad, should have just bought some footwells repairs section but thought it would be fun to make my own.





Can see where conversion has chopped away at footwells width.
Not even attempted to seal the gaps:-(




Corners took a hammering, fixing that should be fun!
fabricated sections for footwells.

what was left of original passenger
Footwells at tunnel

Bender and hammer used to make panels, check out tonybmw on retrorides he has excellent advise on how to make panels. See pictures I found of what bulkheads should look like!

Anyway I will add more pics as I go hopefully quicker now I'm getting the hang of it.

bloody good job so far, keep the pics coming

Really impressed with this mate keep going & more pics thanks I need the inspiration

very impressive, good luck with the resto

Very good job so far bud, looks good.
My bulkhead looks similar at the mo Well actually I've got 2 to chose from, just got to pick the best. (least rusty)

You're going great guns with new panel fabrication. A lot of people buy ready made repair sections from YRM or similar but it's good to see that some folks still make their own.

Thanks for the kind words I'll keep posting pics, may not always be in focus due to quality of camera in phone

On to the final footwell panel today, is a bit more tricky!

1.2mm sheet is like foil compared to the 2mm sheet I used for the horizontal parts!

Can't buy these panels so this is run through, may well be obvious but it might help someone.

Take off existing panel by removing spot welds, either drill straight through, be aware if panels behind you want to keep. Or use special drill bits.

I use a small drill bit to get the the center then both spot weld remover bits.


Bits I use.


Remains of original inside panel before conversion.
Measure edges taking in consideration sheet thickness at bends.


Use jigsaw or grinder with cutting disk to cut out.
In to bender and wack with shot hammer or put wood down and wack.
I use vice with angle in jaws for tabs or a steel block held on the line. New panel ready to be fitted tomorrow.

I thought it might be interesting to work out the panel using trig rather then eying and guessing.

With the rain coming and going I had time to sit done and have a play around on some paper.

The last panel is quite tricky as it bends vertically in the middle but needs to stay inline with the slope of the horizontal panels plane/slope.

I initially used what was left of the original panel to measure it and reproduce but it didn't look so good when fitted.

Basically the problem was how to solve how much to to take off the slope pre bend on the sheet such that when it was bended it was still snugg up to the panel coming from the rear of the footwell.


After thinking about it a while I figured I could use the right angled triangle formed from the bend position out to the front edge of the footwell, this could be used to calculate how much I needed to negate from the pre bent edge to keep it snugg after bending.

Using a protractor to measure the angles of the plane/slope coming from the back of the footwell and the angle of the vertical bend, I could use SohCahToa to calculate the projection of the front edge after bending, back on to the unbent plane and work out how far vertically it was away from the original slope and then negate this value when cutting the sheet to compensate for the rotated offset.

Here is my drawing with that calculations on them. Its basic trig I learnt back at school its just a bit tricky after so long



This is the problem shown with piece paper, this is flat sheet pre bend with correct slope/plane.

you can see when bent from the side view the bent part no longer is in line with the original plane/slope(back part near hand)



But if I fold paper along origanal slope i can rectify this. So if i can work out how much to lower the sheet before cutting such that after the bend it lies on the slope then it will fit snuggly with no cutting of cardboard etc.


I first need to work out the right angle triangle formed from the bend line, i need the opposite length (the height) and the adjacent side length.
I have the angle of the vertical bend I need to make and I now have the length of the adjacent side. So I essentially have the hypotenuse of a right angled triangle formed after bending the sheet. If I use Cah ,Cosine(bend angle)=adj / hyp I can plug my values in to solve the adjacent length of this triangle, this lengh is the front edge projected back horizontally along the unbent plane. This tells me how far along the original adjacent length my sheet edge is after bending.

I can use this value of how far horizontally along the slope my bent piece is to solve the vertical distance to the original plane/slope.

I can now form a new triangle as I have length horizontally along the slope and the original angle of the plane so by using Toa (Tan). Solving the opposite length of this new triangle will give me the vertial distance i need to negate.

I did two methods of the last part, either way will work. The alternate method just uses a ratio given how far along you are no need to look up tan values.

You can see the lower line is the plane which has been negated in the negative direction of the bend from its initial point. This is the original slope after bending just measure along to desired length in this case 13.4.



This is for the bottom section obviously has a different initial angle/slope so need to recalculate cos and sin results.



Maybe this is overkill but it fits really nice compared to the the one I made by measuring from the manky original panel.

If anyone has questions or can see an easier way or an error please chime in!

very nice work ,,,,the only TRIG i know ,has a broom ,,,original ,,just replaced 3 handles and 4 heads ,,,,lol but seriously great work ,,

Put that last panel on this morning works very nicely.


Due to the great British summer and the amount of rain coming for the week I need to make a jig and get the new door pillars and feet on today. So I can get the bulkhead back on chassis and in the dry to fix corners and weld all the panels. Its going to be a long day

Progress made today with the jig to hold everything straight when repairing corners door pillars and feet.

Took off drivers side pillar and foot went put on new one and heart sunk.
It all came flooding back when trying get bulkhead off I had to cut through some bits because of the rust.

Need to make some mods to the jig before fitting new feet, looks like I'll be getting wet again!

Thought I would cut my loses and went to buy a bootle of Rum, some fresh mint and enjoy the summer evening before the storm

Looking good so far. I assume that angle iron frame is the 'jig' to keep everything the right shape?