at the moment I am trying this new shell performance diesel and wow it is making a difference already even the wife says it is better and she knows nothing about engine but you can feel the different in acceleration it cost me about 6.50 extra to fill the tank up and I will see if I get extra mileage out of it , also the box I had for better performance did put more fuel through and I was sure that's why I had to replace the turbo hoses sooner and when I took them off they seemed as though they were covered in diesel , now instead of wasting money on all these gadgets the car is standard just with better fuel in it.

I'll look in to this Pierburg MAF.
The wife's Ford Kuga has a 2L 180 odd BHP diesel. I suspect it's the same engine as that in my brother in laws new Jag. It's not a bad engine. Lots of low down torque but it does run out of puff above 3K Rpm. It definitely doesn't feel like it's packing over 180BHP but then it's difficult to tell in the heavy Kuga.

Nodge68 said:

I'll look in to this Pierburg MAF.
The wife's Ford Kuga has a 2L 180 odd BHP diesel. I suspect it's the same engine as that in my brother in laws new Jag. It's not a bad engine. Lots of low down torque but it does run out of puff above 3K Rpm. It definitely doesn't feel like it's packing over 180BHP but then it's difficult to tell in the heavy Kuga.

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Unless JLR are selling engines to Ford now, it won't be the same engine. The 2L diesels in JLR vehicles are now their own and made in UK.

GrumpyGel said:

Unless JLR are selling engines to Ford now, it won't be the same engine. The 2L diesels in JLR vehicles are now their own and made in UK.

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Looks like the brother in laws Jag does have the new engine and the wife's Kuga doesn't. The Kuga is reasonable on fuel through and has enough performance to satisfy most needs.
It's interesting to see that the new Jag engine is built in the UK and has found its way into the new range of LR vehicles too. I like the look of the Discovery Sport. I look forward to buying one when they become a second hand bargain like the Freelander 1.

interesting read all that ..i wont fit one ..hope my mate will be persuaded not to as well... i get 34/38 0n a 79k td4 so thats fine

Well, I for one have had great results from a Ron box. More get up and go with a small increase in mpg.
And that's not just me, cos it still gets good mpg when the wife drives it and she'd give Lewis Hamilton a good run for his money.
But everything within reason. If you turn it up to full and drive like a tit, it'll use more fuel and eat tyres.
I use setting 2 and drive with a light foot. And it makes a huge difference when towing.
Not had chance to try the pierburgh maf yet. But when the bosch dies I'll probably get one.
Mike

More get up and go with a small increase in mpg.

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same here ..
and .. wouldn't want to be without it

can drive with just toe movement on the go pedal ( ron-box on ' 10 ' )
uphill standing starts feel easier on the clutch 'n drive train .. smoother gear changes all in all
no need to rev the engine to make good progress .. plenty of torque at lower rpm
( before the egr was bypassed .. and the ron-box installed ..
( uphill starts could easily result in major clutch judder if rpm were not raised enough
( and clutch release not fast enough ..
( that was in the first 2 weeks of driving it .. took some getting used to

as for improved mpg .. only theories as to why ..
better low rpm torque enables use of higher gears ..
getting a move-on quicker lets one reach a cruising speed faster ..
then it's just small movements of the go-pedal to maintain speed ..
mpg on mine is somewhat better than without the ron-box
but as said .. heavy right foot equals lower mpg and increased tyre wear

i get between 38 mpg and 42 mpg .. using the AC almost all the time ..
using the ptc heater seems the biggest drawback to mpg
( various fuel draining 'drag-factors' aside )

seen on a previous occasion .. mpg difference between a detuned / emission controlled diesel
( e.control was a diaphram device that wouldn't allow extra fuel to be injected before the turbo came into effect
( from what i've read .. similar to the l.r. tdi diesels
and same engine in standard tuning .. without the emission control
i.e. instant delivery of fuel on drivers demand .. so plume of black smoke before the turbo kicked in
( both on hgv's carrying similar load / weight .. same pickup / delivery route )

the standard tuned .. non emission control .. diesel acheived better mpg
although it did require a light right foot .. and knowing when and how to use it ..

i would not fancy going back to driving the bog standard td4 ( freelander '1' )
if i hadn't chosen the ron-box .. i would have gone for a good ecu 're-map'

hippo purchased with 37k miles on clock
ron-box installed at 44k miles on clock
miles with ron-box .. 75k .. ( current mileage .. 119k )
engine issues .. none .. apart from the l.p.fuel pump that was replaced at 76k miles on clock
( which is its aprox. life-span )

Not had chance to try the pierburgh maf yet

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bit more get-up-and-go with the pierburg ..
although .. more potential for reduced mpg

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I havent got a ron box but i do have a blue spark cr tech multi map box ,it runs about 130bhp as they set it but can be taken up more but i have left it as factory set , i use shell nitro as well and i can only comment on my own truck, it pulls like a train dont have to change down on hills as much and it tows 1500kgs of caravan with no probs at all up hill and down dale . no probs so far and it works for a living .

Fitted one to my auto and it ticks all the boxes, was quite sluggish before as my previous one was remapped. I average 34 mpg commuting A roads and hills.
EGR delete also. Much smoother and a bit of giddyup when needed. Running with the high torque med power setting.
Im very happy

I've been reading with great interest what Joe_H has been writing. I hope something gets built at least in a prototype stage, adjustable timing, YES! Bringing the best out of an engine is surely always desirable. Note: I didn't say maximum power for given conditions, merely 'best' of what you would like to achieve, slightly different goals maybe?

Next Problem said:

I've been reading with great interest what Joe_H has been writing. I hope something gets built at least in a prototype stage, adjustable timing, YES! Bringing the best out of an engine is surely always desirable. Note: I didn't say maximum power for given conditions, merely 'best' of what you would like to achieve, slightly different goals maybe?

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Hi Next Problem, I do hope to build something this summer but need to sort out the 'man shack' first - have just moved into new house and everything is chaos.
I have worked out all the timings for the microprocessor and a draft of the circuit. Just need to get the scope on the freelander crank sensor and needle lift sensor and see what is actually happening as it comes from the factory. I am most interested in two areas, firstly the injection timing, but also the use of a wide band lambda sensor in closed loop (apart from WOT) to control the actual injection quantity, that should 'in theory' be simple to do in real time. Both functions could be controlled from the same microprocessor. Again, I must stress that this is for the L series only (as it is what I have to work with). If and when I get something sorted I will publish all details including schematics and PIC code for anyone to use. If anyone would like to collaborate just drop me a pm.
Joe

Nodge68 said:

Of course I would. I'd go as far as to test the output pressure of HPFP and LPFP. The MAP sensor also needs to be in good health and the engine needs to be cleaned of gum from EGR operation.
Once these are done and all results satisfactory, then sure, fit a RB. Once the engine is running at a higher power level, the oil needs to be changed more often as it will degrade faster.

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Where is the map sensor is this different to the maf? I was going to buy a ronbox to help improve when towing might not bother now

Larahausp1 said:

Where is the map sensor is this different to the maf? I was going to buy a ronbox to help improve when towing might not bother now

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The MAP and MAF are 2 different sensors. The MAP monitors the inlet manifold pressure. The MAF monitors the air flow into the turbo.

The MAP sensor is on the left hand side of the manifold as you look from the front of the engine bay. About the size of a small match box. You need to take the top cover off to get at it.
Mike

Skinny Mike said:

The MAP sensor is on the left hand side of the manifold as you look from the front of the engine bay. About the size of a small match box. You need to take the top cover off to get at it.
Mike

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And what are the symptoms if either one is clogged up? I have to make sure I rev mine when pulling off if I just try clutch it' very weak. And when towing it like hills and here like a vacuum noise. Can see any visible leaks on pipes

MAP sensor faults usually gives flat spots in the rev range and lack of power around 60-70mph.
MAF sensor faults can give various issues such as over fuelling, smoke, lack luster performance.
Vacuum noises can be from very small holes in the turbo pipes. Or vacuum leek's from the acumulator and associated pipes. Which are the smaller 5mm ish pipes.
A Haynes manual or Rave file can help you trace these.
Is the car producing black smoke under load?
Have you tried a tank of quality fuel with a bottle of injector cleaner?

But it does sound like you have a punctured pipe somewhere.
Mike

Skinny Mike said:

MAP sensor faults usually gives flat spots in the rev range and lack of power around 60-70mph.
MAF sensor faults can give various issues such as over fuelling, smoke, lack luster performance.
Vacuum noises can be from very small holes in the turbo pipes. Or vacuum leek's from the acumulator and associated pipes. Which are the smaller 5mm ish pipes.
A Haynes manual or Rave file can help you trace these.
Is the car producing black smoke under load?
Have you tried a tank of quality fuel with a bottle of injector cleaner?

But it does sound like you have a punctured pipe somewhere.
Mike

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It struggles to pull above 50 to 60 with van on. If i received on drive in neutral it sometimes only goes up to so many revs then a flat spot

That would suggest the MAP sensor is duff, but not 100%.
A full service, oil and filter, air filter, also has the crankcase breather filter been changed or replaced with the newer version. When we're the turbo hoses last replaced. Have you cleaned the EGR valve and the manifold.
Generally, it's not just one thing that causes this issue.
Mike

Yes had a full service I changed the crank breather and took the early off. Not changed the hoses as wasn't sure on the one on left side by cooler. Is the map easy to change or can it be cleaned. Thanks for your help.

MAP sensor is around £50. Very easy to change or clean. If you want to try cleaning it first, the sensor is held on by one 8mm(I think) bolt. Use contact cleaner and liberally spray it. Do not be tempted to stick anything down the small hole. You can blast the hole with cleaner.
Mike