In Australia they call it what it is, 'luxury car tax'
Yes. The few rich people i know are all at least twice as tight as i am!
Datatek
Well-Known Member
The richer people are, the tighter they are in my experience. The more they have the more they want.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
I still think that VED should be part of fuel tax. Use less pay less, use more pay more. Elastic vehs should be taxed on an equivalent basis. Again use more, pay more.
Thennnnnnn.... DVLA and government should be held to account for failings in road standards. VED is used partially for road maintenance, it is also used for other services, that I can't recall using in my car. Such as park maintenance, street lighting, hospitals, schools, railways, housing and so many other things. Things that we are already taxed for in other ways, including Council Tax.
VED should be reallocated to road maintenance only.
If we have a contract ,and you charge me to maintain my garden and I am constantly finding holes, erosion, flooding, areas collapsing and basic lack of maintenance of my garden, making it unfit for purpose. Your excuse being you are spending the money on things other than my garden. Things I have already paid for under a different contract. You are now double dipping and you have breached our contract. Why is the DVLA not held to account?
Vehicle drivers are not only taxed to be allowed to use the roads, they are then taxed to ensure their vehicle is roadworthy. Why then are roads not vehicle worthy.
Thennnnnnn.... DVLA and government should be held to account for failings in road standards. VED is used partially for road maintenance, it is also used for other services, that I can't recall using in my car. Such as park maintenance, street lighting, hospitals, schools, railways, housing and so many other things. Things that we are already taxed for in other ways, including Council Tax.
VED should be reallocated to road maintenance only.
If we have a contract ,and you charge me to maintain my garden and I am constantly finding holes, erosion, flooding, areas collapsing and basic lack of maintenance of my garden, making it unfit for purpose. Your excuse being you are spending the money on things other than my garden. Things I have already paid for under a different contract. You are now double dipping and you have breached our contract. Why is the DVLA not held to account?
Vehicle drivers are not only taxed to be allowed to use the roads, they are then taxed to ensure their vehicle is roadworthy. Why then are roads not vehicle worthy.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
You don't stay rich by giving it away.
Instead of going after those who by hard work or birthright can afford a nice car, Go after the double damagers - electric. Electricity for vehicles doesn't magically appear from angel farts.
There's no direct correlation between any taxes & gov spending. I remember many years ago speaking to Custons & Excise when I started my own ltd. company. Nice guy explained how to optimise VAT in first year, but also told me all taxes go into the same main gov pot.
All the "this is spent on that" is just political retoric & justification for the taxes.
All the "this is spent on that" is just political retoric & justification for the taxes.
Graculus
Well-Known Member
The problem with VED, fuel duty & other taxes (and Nat. Ins.) is that they all go into one big pot, which is divvied up by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to each department, which in turn have some 'wiggle room' as to it's spending priorities, the same goes for 'local Government' - some of it's funding is from HMG, some from local taxes - but all of it is spent 'now', there isn't a pot of reserved or ringfenced cash for any purpose - including State Pensions - the idea that VED or NI was 'saved for later' for the purpose it was intended for is, and long has been, a misnomer.
People also tend to forget that 'Government money' is in the main, 'our' money, earnt by us, paid to HMG for them to decide how to spend - sometimes on the basis of 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil', invariably the squeaky wheel pays little or no tax but expects the most benefit from it.
People also tend to forget that 'Government money' is in the main, 'our' money, earnt by us, paid to HMG for them to decide how to spend - sometimes on the basis of 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil', invariably the squeaky wheel pays little or no tax but expects the most benefit from it.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Even NI employees and employers is just income tax by another name.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
This is why I am saying reallocate VED to roads only. Perhaps for 10 years or so. We already pay through other taxes for all the other things. To add the income from VED to the stew pot at the detriment of the roads doesn't seem logical. Or, they could even set an amount of VED to be ringfenced for roads improvement. No more wishywashy ' well all the tax you pay is used for a multitude of things, we can't really break it down.'.'If you and I know where our money comes from , and where we spend each income source, the government can do the same.
It is disingenuous for them to pretend otherwise.
And talking of squeaky wheels, it's time to register and tax electric bikes. They are motor vehicles after all
Graculus
Well-Known Member
The problem is, most Governments since the late 90's have only been capable of vanity projects and firefighting, they wouldn't plan any long-tem spending as they themselves seriously doubted they'd be there to see it through - so just used the money to buy sticking plasters, sometimes to patch up self-inflicted wounds.
I also doubt that VED alone would be enough to maintain the countries road network - much like NI contributions are not enough to pay the state pension, although for many years, tobacco tax income far outweighed the 'cost to the NHS' of treating smoking related health problems by some margin.
Register, tax & insure electric bikes & scooters? hell yes!
I also doubt that VED alone would be enough to maintain the countries road network - much like NI contributions are not enough to pay the state pension, although for many years, tobacco tax income far outweighed the 'cost to the NHS' of treating smoking related health problems by some margin.
Register, tax & insure electric bikes & scooters? hell yes!
Tobacco tax, yes my inhalers cost less than tobacco if, I had to pay for them.
Yes. Closest thing to reality is the TV licence which used to mainly go to the BBC.
Not exactly. In fact NI is one of the very few hypothecated taxes (TV licence is the only other that springs to mind). Both employee & employer NI is paid into the National Insurance Fund & used to pay for the state pension. Here is part of the Wikipedia description of the National Insurance Fund:-
The money is held in the National Insurance Fund (NIF), separate from the Consolidated Fund.[3] The income of the NIF consist of contributions from employees, employers and the self-employed, plus interest on its investments. The NIF are used to pay for social security benefits such as state retirement pensions, but not for the means tested Pension Credit and Tax Credits.
National Insurance contributions also provide a small part of the funding for the public healthcare systems in the UK (including the National Health Service in England), but contributions are paid into the funds net of money allocated to the NHS.[4] Thus the NIF do not hold money directed for the general provision of health services in the United Kingdom. The Government determines the total allocation for health each year and the allocation from each class contribution is calculated by the Government actuary.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
As far as I'm concerned, NI still amounts to a tax on income wherever it goes to be squandered. As a one man limited company, I was effectively paying employers and employees NI, added to the basic rate of tax I was basically paying 45% or more, I can't remember the NI figures from the 90's. I could have invested that money to much greater effect.
I'm not sure how accurate that is although I have to admit I don't know the inner workings of the Treasury. I know the narrative is that National Insurance covers pensions, unemployment and healthcare but I suspect the reality is that everything gets sucked into the Treasury and spat back out on whatever the political priority of the time is. What the actual percentage cross-charging is is probably unknown even to them without making some assumptions.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
That is exactly as I understand it.
You won’t win Nigel. It’s like arguing with the religious.
Graculus
Well-Known Member
Or just look at the published account rather than an outdated Wikipedia page?
I must admit, I thought it'd be the other way around, but the point that Gov't. income is spent how they see fit, not ringfenced for it's stated purpose still stands.
So not all the NI contributions are used for NI payments? That also ties in with the current incumbents increase in Employers NI to help fill in the infamous nebulous 'black hole' used as an excuse to saddle 'us' with punitive taxation by other names.
I must admit, I thought it'd be the other way around, but the point that Gov't. income is spent how they see fit, not ringfenced for it's stated purpose still stands.
