BlackDogZulu

BlackDogZulu

Active Member
Hi all
I have just put down a deposit on a 2000 P38 Vogue, pick it up next weekend. Had a 1997 HSE a few years ago and loved it. I have just sold my Defender and spent less than half of the proceeds on the Rangie. Mad or what? It’s a nice old bus with a few minor niggles I can sort out later. But it only comes with one key. This makes me very nervous. What is the best way to get a second key (I’d even buy a third if it was not too pricey - I usually try to keep one for daily use, one on a hook in the kitchen if the Mrs needs it, and one hidden as a last-resort spare)? I have searched the forum but nothing recent that made sense to me. I understand that the actual physical key can be cut by any locksmith, but the problem is getting the fob coded to the car. This is presumably most easily done by a main dealer. And costs a fortune!

Basically, I made a decent profit selling the 90, so I don’t mind spending a bit to get a solution that is simple and will work long-term, but obviously cheaper is good. The new key/s must all work together with the original. What’s the communal view? (I tried to call in on the local JLR dealer today, but at 3 pm they had all bunked off early from their official 5 pm finish.)

Thanks all.
 
Main dealer only and you need to know which key you have now (key1 key 2 etc)
They're about 300 quid a pop though from memory!
 
If you have electric seats, there is a way to test it using the seat memory but i can't remember the procedure.
 
IIRC, LR will automatically order you key 3 or 4 anyway. You can only have 4 keys, any repeat orders will disable the same key. So if you have key 1 and order another 1, your old one will stop working. Also, don't expect it quickly.
 
If you have memory seats and feel like taking the chance superlocking it and hoping it all unlocks again... then...

Set the seat at one extreme (say all the way forward) and store it as Memory 1. Do the same with the seat all the way back and store as Memory 2

Then, if you superlock the vehicle (double press the lock button twice quickly), then when you unlock the vehicle, press and HOLD the unlock button. The doors will unlock and then the seat will move to either memory 1 or memory 2 depending on which key unlocked the vehicle.

I used it to find out that I had key 2, and was then able to order a new Key 1.

If the seat doesn't move in either direction, then chances are you have a Key 3 or 4.

Failing that, I have a key fob checker and can check the ID of the fob and I can work out what key number it is. The downside, I'm supposed to be heading away for work at the end of the week, and not back properly until April.

Fob cost.... when I bought the replacement key for mine (a couple of years ago now) it was about £174 including VAT, but did take awhile to arrive!
 
Mine have the key number on the back of the fob! Unfortunately, they're BOTH Key 4-no simultaneous sync and no saved settings function.
 
hi blackdog , this is the script , take i.d. and v5 to main dealer , ask for and get them to put it on receipt key number 4 , 2 reasons you wont know what keys have been issued previously apart from orginal when new keys 1 & 2 .....& they DONT automatically select them for you ..cos once you order and pay they wont swap them for free !!!!!!. keys cost approx. £160.00 from huff in Germany thet arrive to main dealer in approx. 4 days !!!!!! they do NOT need syncing they plug n play ....9/10 times key 4 is rarely issued unless specifically ordered only huff will know not the main dealer who unfortunately couldn't care less once you pay them ok mate this has been experienced many times on here as I know and this is the right way from my own experience ,,, ok mate kind regards mozz
 
Thanks, that’s really helpful. I have the day off tomorrow so I will speak to the dealer. I don’t have the V5 (or even the car) yet, so I can’t actually order, but at least I can gauge if they know what they are doing.
 
Spoke to the main dealer today. They won't touch it! Apparently the last P38 they ordered a new key for, they scrambled the BeCM and the car was scrapped. However, he has given me the number of a local specialist (30 miles away, but that's local in West Wales) who says it is all possible. The only problem will be if the car has had its lockset replaced, and he won't know until he gets the new key - and no refunds if it's wrong. Key 4 is the one to have, he says, and it will cost about £180 for the key and about £40 labour to code it to the car. That's not too bad. I'm happy to take the risk for the peace of mind of having two keys.

A bonus is that the key guy runs a Land Rover specialist garage and knows his Range Rovers, so he may well become my new friend when it comes to mechanical stuff that I can't or don't want to do.

Thanks for the responses here. It helped me speak to these people without sounding like a total idiot. I hope.
 
Last edited:
As far as I know the new keys that come from Huff in Germany come ready to go and do not need coding to the car on a machine so should not need a labour charge

So what the dealer that scrambled the becm was doing is anybodys guess, sounds like the dealer hadn't got a clue on p38's so one to avoid.
 
Wonder what the difference is between the variously-numbered keys. I understand that only keys 1&2 will activate the seat memories, but there must be a software difference to differentiate the keys. Has anybody delved into the electronics inside?
 
To be fair, he only gave that figure when I pressed him on it. I shall ask him about it when I see him.

The main dealer seems pretty clueless. I didn't want to take it there anyway, but it seemed like a good place to start.
 
BlackDogZulu said:
Spoke to the main dealer today. They won't touch it! Apparently the last P38 they ordered a new key for, they scrambled the BeCM and the car was scrapped.
Click to expand...

Utter, utter bull****. Total f*ckwits.

ibgarrow said:
Wonder what the difference is between the variously-numbered keys. I understand that only keys 1&2 will activate the seat memories, but there must be a software difference to differentiate the keys. Has anybody delved into the electronics inside?
Click to expand...

It is in the code that goes to the BECM. @martyuk showed me it and explained how it worked but I cannot remember the details. I think the code that goes to the BECM has a number/string and then a number for the key and then the rolling code on the end. From the key number the BECM knows if key 1 or 2. If the rolling code in the BECM doesn't match the one in the key then it need resyncing. That part is in RAVE, I think.

New key will just need syncing to BECM. Job done.
 
Grrrrrr said:
New key will just need syncing to BECM. Job done.
Click to expand...

There is a caveat to that. In some instances the car needs opening with a known good fob first. I think in those instances without a good key you need the Nanocom to clear the RF memory in the BECM first.

Thinking about it, if the dealer accidentally cleared the whole BECM settings instead of the RF memory or maybe cleared the key code or the EKA code then they might have bricked it. But that's just plain incompetence.
 
Find another dealer... they don't know what they are talking about.

The key fobs all have a hardware ID that they send out as part of the rolling code, which the BECM deciphers, and then checks to make sure the ID of the key that has sent to the BECM matches what it has stored.

The fob code in the BECM is the ID for Key #1 - so the BECM will accept that ID, and the following 3 sequential ID's - to give 4 allowable keys.
That's one of the reasons why using second hand keys from another lockset isn't viable - as they are all programmed with a different ID from a different lockset. Since the BECM only gets told the ID of the first key in the range of 4, rather then the individual ID of each key fob, you can't pick a key from one lockset and one from another and get them both to work, it would be one lockset or the other.

The ID of the key is programmed at the factory (Huf in Germany) based on the VIN/lockset barcode number and the chip in the key is a 'One Time Programmable' chip, which means you can't even reprogram a key to send a different ID.

Hence the only way to get another key for your vehicle is to get one from the dealer.

If your dealer thinks that by ordering another key, it's going to mess your car up - then find another dealer. NO diagnostics is needed to get a new key to work you just need to unlock the vehicle with the original key you have and then from an unlocked/disarmed state, sync the new key in the door via the commonly known method of press and hold LOCK button whilst locking the vehicle with the key in the door, and then press and hold UNLOCK whilst unlocking the vehicle.

Marty
 
Great knowledge here!

I’m pretty sure that what the dealer told me was true. The guy admitted that they don’t really understand the system and that they prefer to sub any work out to an independent. I can well believe they bricked a BeCM through incompetence. (And I can well believe that this could scrap an older P38, if you think of replacing BeCM and all door locks etc with new ones at dealer labour rates.) It’s one of those dealers where the customer base is school run mums and local solicitors. You never see a Landy older than 2-3 years there, never mind a Series or Defender. All the enthusiasts use independents or DIY and wouldn’t be seen dead there. He was basically scaring me with horror stories because he didn’t want the work, but I understood that. Dealer was first base to get the lie of the land, now I have a couple of phone numbers of people who do this stuff routinely and can go ahead.

Thanks everyone for the info and advice.
 
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