Irishrover

Irishrover

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys
2008, Disco 3, TDV6 with Air suspension.

Bit the bullet due to the fine weather and got round to starting the rear suspension overhaul on the Disco.
New bushes,ARB links, swivel bushes and track rods. I already have the set of Polybushed arms (Both sides), new bolts etc.
Started off at the Offside and apart from rusted bolt heads and nuts everything hasn't gone too bad and none of the bolts have been seized in the bushes, UNTIL I came to the last bolt-the upper rear bush bolt. There is not enough room to get a standard 21mm socket on the bolt head with either a breaker bar or standard ratchet as the body mount and body itself allows enough room. I did manage to get the ring end of a combination 21mm spanner on the bolt head and a long length of scaffold pole on the end for extra leverage but due to the head having rusted, the head was rounded off...boy was it tight and it didn't shift.
Next I tried an 18" pair of Stillsons + the tube and they fouled on the wishbone,which I intend cutting off close to the Bush boss to give me more clearance to swing.
Both the LR manual and Haynes mention nothing about the lack of clearance for access to the bolt with normal or "Special" tools.
The bolt is supposed to be tightened to around 200 ft.lbs so how is that achieved if there is no way a Torque wrench and standard socket will fit on the bolt head ? The nut on the end of the bolt has a leg attached which locates in a slot in the carrier bracket welded to the chassis.
Will the new bolt go into the carrier when the new wishbone is refitted ?
How much of a job is it to remove the body mount and lift the body from the chassis by no more than an inch or so ?
Because the old arms are going for scrap I can carry out drastic measures with an angle grinder if needs be.
Any useful info or tips from those of you that have been there, done that and got the Tee Shirt would be very welcome.
Will make a start on the Nearside now
Cheers Guys
 
I also replaced brake hoses and drop links at the same time

Plse let us know how it goes , plenty here to always help

Don’t forget the piccies plse, thks

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If you are going to replace both the wishbone and the bolt, all you need to preserve is/are the mount(s). So use heat, penetrating oil, hacksaw, cutting discs whatever it takes.
 
Ref tools , this will be my next investment for the arms

Also had to cut the bolts, enclosed a pic of what a sod it is for access , u can just see where I’ve started to cut, that was with a recip , next time will use the tool above , rear nearside is harder because u have more electrics and compressor there

Also for members who can’t see, the nuts are captive welded to a plate

F26EB271-3EA2-446A-A524-7639678737B9.jpeg
FD25CE13-8D4A-4AF4-9DCA-D85141A95294.jpeg
8EE19C9C-2E84-4958-8B89-7D642DC46140.jpeg
 
Stanleysteamer said:
If you are going to replace both the wishbone and the bolt, all you need to preserve is/are the mount(s). So use heat, penetrating oil, hacksaw, cutting discs whatever it takes.
Click to expand...

Hi

Unfortunately u can’t use heat, too much electrics and the fuel tank is on the off side , is a right sod for access , I used a recip saw

Trouble is the bolt rusts solid to the inside of the bush that has a metal collar inside

All because the factory didn’t use coppaslip

E9061D9F-9DE7-4303-A54A-324FA7D99AFD.jpeg
 
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Yep, reciprocating saw comes under the heading of "whatever it takes" (wish I had one). As for heat, it is possible to use a heat gun, maybe on not too high a setting provided you shield stuff. Cutting bodily through the whole fitting and the bolt takes a long time, I know only too well. Shearing off the bolt if you possibly can might well help.
 
Thanks for all your input Guys....appreciated :)
Started the nearside today and the lower arm bolts came out pretty easily including the rear one with a fancy spring clip that disintegrated upon the first turn of the bolt. Managed to get a combi spanner on the nut which held it whilst I turned the bolt.
Next, started on the upper arm, the front bolt came out a treat. Then went to the son of a bitch rear one. I bent the "Leg" on the nut out of the way so I could turn it and the leg broke off, which was a help. The spanner size for the nut is 24mm but I found that a 15/16" A/F is a tighter fit.
had the same access problem for the bolt head as the other side so had to get my aged brain to work. Popped down the local hardware shop...They must be Heathens because they were open :eek: and bought a couple of 21mm sockets for four quid. Got the angle grinder on them and shortened the hex. length so that it just fitted the depth of the bolt head, tried it up and it was still tight to fit in the gap. Out with the angle grinder again and reduced the length of the 1/2" square on the socket. Tried it again and was getting close. This time, the square on my breaker bar was bottoming on the bolt head so decided to shorten the length of the square with the angle grinder by about 3mm so it was clear of the bolt head...EUREKA !!! it worked and I could get the breaker bar and socket (Just about) squarely on the bolt head :D. Gave it a heave , the arm moved up, the 15/16" spanner on the nut wedged itself against the body and started to undo, the bolt was solid and I just undid the nut albeit about one flat at a time until the nyloc insert came to the end of the bolt and it spun off by hand. The bolt however is well and truly seized into the bush. The chassis bracket is slotted at the bolt head end so that the bolt can be partially inserted into the bush on reassembly at an angle-presumably because of the limited space so I tried a chisel between the bolt head "Washer" and the bush to see if I could get it to move but to no avail.
Went to the offside given the partial success and tried the same method only to find that the nut was rusty as hell and when I applied the breaker bar and socket to the bolt head, the combi spanner on the nut slipped round.
So all in all Guys looks like it's a reciprical saw job but only 3 cuts-2 on the offside and 1 on the nearside (To get the bolt head off). I have a 4" and 4 1/2" angle grinder but am reluctant to use it in the rear mount area together with my blow torch (MAPP gas) because of all the sensor cables, plastic fuel lines, plastic air suspension pipes etc. that are around that area.
I watched the guy on U Tube with his reciprical saw and about 100 blades ;), I think where he went astray was by not applying plenty of coolant to the blade especially when going through the rubber part of the bush which would (a) cause the blade to get very hot and (b) clog the teeth up. The bolts are grade 10.2 tensile, one step down from 12.9 grade...normal bolts are 8.8 and we all know how easy they are to cut by hand with a hacksaw but the higher tensile are obviously not so forgiving and need a cool, lubricated blade. I shall be using good old fashioned water based soluble oil mix but soapy water in Fairy bottle would do the job of getting through the rubber followed by normal engine oil through the bolt and the steel sleeve of the bush.
Will try and sort the hire of a saw tomorrow (Sat.) but may have to wait until Tuesday because of the Bank Hol's.
I will try and get some pic's together of the stuff that I have done especially with tool mod's for the upper rear bush bolt access.
As a matter of interest, I have made up some tooling for pressing in the arm Polybushes and also the swivel upper and lower ball joints and wheel bearing replacement (Remove & refit). Forum members are welcome to borrow them FOC , just pay postage costs out and back...PM me if you need them or for dimensions etc.
Special thanks to gstuart for his links and great pic's
Cheers Guys....Watch this space>>.

BTW have to replace the handbrake back plates,look like the mice have been at them :eek: More expense but may as well do them whilst the hubs are out of the swivels. Expecting them Tuesday.
 
Irishrover said:
Thanks for all your input Guys....appreciated :)
Started the nearside today and the lower arm bolts came out pretty easily including the rear one with a fancy spring clip that disintegrated upon the first turn of the bolt. Managed to get a combi spanner on the nut which held it whilst I turned the bolt.
Next, started on the upper arm, the front bolt came out a treat. Then went to the son of a bitch rear one. I bent the "Leg" on the nut out of the way so I could turn it and the leg broke off, which was a help. The spanner size for the nut is 24mm but I found that a 15/16" A/F is a tighter fit.
had the same access problem for the bolt head as the other side so had to get my aged brain to work. Popped down the local hardware shop...They must be Heathens because they were open :eek: and bought a couple of 21mm sockets for four quid. Got the angle grinder on them and shortened the hex. length so that it just fitted the depth of the bolt head, tried it up and it was still tight to fit in the gap. Out with the angle grinder again and reduced the length of the 1/2" square on the socket. Tried it again and was getting close. This time, the square on my breaker bar was bottoming on the bolt head so decided to shorten the length of the square with the angle grinder by about 3mm so it was clear of the bolt head...EUREKA !!! it worked and I could get the breaker bar and socket (Just about) squarely on the bolt head :D. Gave it a heave , the arm moved up, the 15/16" spanner on the nut wedged itself against the body and started to undo, the bolt was solid and I just undid the nut albeit about one flat at a time until the nyloc insert came to the end of the bolt and it spun off by hand. The bolt however is well and truly seized into the bush. The chassis bracket is slotted at the bolt head end so that the bolt can be partially inserted into the bush on reassembly at an angle-presumably because of the limited space so I tried a chisel between the bolt head "Washer" and the bush to see if I could get it to move but to no avail.
Went to the offside given the partial success and tried the same method only to find that the nut was rusty as hell and when I applied the breaker bar and socket to the bolt head, the combi spanner on the nut slipped round.
So all in all Guys looks like it's a reciprical saw job but only 3 cuts-2 on the offside and 1 on the nearside (To get the bolt head off). I have a 4" and 4 1/2" angle grinder but am reluctant to use it in the rear mount area together with my blow torch (MAPP gas) because of all the sensor cables, plastic fuel lines, plastic air suspension pipes etc. that are around that area.
I watched the guy on U Tube with his reciprical saw and about 100 blades ;), I think where he went astray was by not applying plenty of coolant to the blade especially when going through the rubber part of the bush which would (a) cause the blade to get very hot and (b) clog the teeth up. The bolts are grade 10.2 tensile, one step down from 12.9 grade...normal bolts are 8.8 and we all know how easy they are to cut by hand with a hacksaw but the higher tensile are obviously not so forgiving and need a cool, lubricated blade. I shall be using good old fashioned water based soluble oil mix but soapy water in Fairy bottle would do the job of getting through the rubber followed by normal engine oil through the bolt and the steel sleeve of the bush.
Will try and sort the hire of a saw tomorrow (Sat.) but may have to wait until Tuesday because of the Bank Hol's.
I will try and get some pic's together of the stuff that I have done especially with tool mod's for the upper rear bush bolt access.
As a matter of interest, I have made up some tooling for pressing in the arm Polybushes and also the swivel upper and lower ball joints and wheel bearing replacement (Remove & refit). Forum members are welcome to borrow them FOC , just pay postage costs out and back...PM me if you need them or for dimensions etc.
Special thanks to gstuart for his links and great pic's
Cheers Guys....Watch this space>>.

BTW have to replace the handbrake back plates,look like the mice have been at them :eek: More expense but may as well do them whilst the hubs are out of the swivels. Expecting them Tuesday.
Click to expand...

Hi mate

Sorry to hear you’ve had the usual agro, I ended up using around 20 x blades and a recip 240 volt saw , took hours as indeed I kept think how hard are these sodding bolts

Think though next time I’ll get the air zip saw with a cutting blade, as it’s quite small and long reach

Will use a small sheet of Ali to protect the cabling behind but should be easier because the thickness of the blades are so much thinner

Indeed ref the torch , too risky

I can see where u have to cut ref the pic, when I was nearly through cutting I heard an almighty bang, it was the nut coming off so was under a lot of tension the way it flew off

Did also buy some long reach spanner’s, but with the bolts so bloody tight didn’t make any different m when there seized I think it’s going to be recip saw or cut off disc,

Please let us know how u get on, once there cut through that’s a lot of the job out the way

Many of us have done the wishbones so know what there like to do

I did buy an extractor kit for the knuckle bushes

Good luck mate and don’t forget ur 3 x shredded wheat , lol

Ps , thks for the compliment , always happy to help buddy

830FA031-E95B-465E-A801-38BD27015A49.jpeg
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Biggest problem with any grinder is the depth of the cut in relation to the disc diameter.
A 3 inch cut off disc might if you are lucky be able to cut in an inch which aint enough.
A 4.5 inch grinder might if you are lucky be able to cut in 1.5 inches which most likely aint enough.
Im sure the bolts are at least 8.8 and the recip saw blades dont really like them.
 
lynall said:
Biggest problem with any grinder is the depth of the cut in relation to the disc diameter.
A 3 inch cut off disc might if you are lucky be able to cut in an inch which aint enough.
A 4.5 inch grinder might if you are lucky be able to cut in 1.5 inches which most likely aint enough.
Im sure the bolts are at least 8.8 and the recip saw blades dont really like them.
Click to expand...

Ant that the truth ref recip saws, took a month of Sunday’s to cut through the bolt , even ceramic blades made no difference

That air tool according to its dimensions should get in about 80% then the rest with a recip saw as I thought even if it got half way would be a bonus and cut a lot of the time down , with it being a long reach zip air tool

Plus suppose it’s got to be at least worth a shot

See some cut the entire wishbone off first then get the grinder in there

At least once the arms have been off once the next time should be considerably easier as the bolts would have been coppa slipped

Also on the drop links my dremel worked a charm on those , 5-10 mins and were done
 
lynall said:
Biggest problem with any grinder is the depth of the cut in relation to the disc diameter.
A 3 inch cut off disc might if you are lucky be able to cut in an inch which aint enough.
A 4.5 inch grinder might if you are lucky be able to cut in 1.5 inches which most likely aint enough.
Im sure the bolts are at least 8.8 and the recip saw blades dont really like them.
Click to expand...


The bolts are 10.9 grade for sure.
With time being a priority with showers forecast mid week, plus the Easter holiday, I will try and hire a recip saw & blades this morning for a couple of days.....IF they are open.
Due to the size of the "Ears" on the chassis mounting brackets it's highly unlikely that a 4 1/2" disc will cut through maybe a large 9" could but gstuart's tip about the foil is a good one.
 
gstuart said:
Ref tools , this will be my next investment for the arms

Also had to cut the bolts, enclosed a pic of what a sod it is for access , u can just see where I’ve started to cut, that was with a recip , next time will use the tool above , rear nearside is harder because u have more electrics and compressor there

Also for members who can’t see, the nuts are captive welded to a plate

View attachment 175803 View attachment 175801 View attachment 175802
Click to expand...

I wish I hadn't read this thread, I am now convinced that my life will not be complete without owning a long reach cut off tool.

Wife: what are you looking at on Ebay?
Me: Nothing
 
Update....Both upper arms off :D

Other half went over to HSS Tool Hire in Bangor this morning and got a Hilti Cordless recipricating saw which comes with 5 heavy duty metal cutting blades, she also got another 2 packs of blades just in case and they will refund the cost per pack if they are unopened.
It's a mean piece of kit and took me around 45 mins. per side with a cut each side of the bush- 4 cuts in total.
Used 5 blades but could have got away with 4. The kit comes with a spare battery and the battery ran out when I was almost through the last cut on the first side. The Suds lubricant/coolant was a godsend I applied copious amounts and the blade life was good, it's the rubber that is the killer and lubricant is a must I feel.
As gstuart mentioned, to improve access with the saw it helps greatly if the wishbone is cut through as close to the bush boss as possible.
So what else have I done today. whilst Er Indoors popped to Bangor ?
Went to the local garage with the nearside swivel, used his hydraulic press to remove and fit a new wheel bearing, removed the top and bottom ball joints. Fitted new top & bottom ball joints to the Offside swivel.
Polished the bores in the swivel and gave it a coat of Hammerite.
Start the rebuild tomorrow hopefully
Will also take some pic's of the butchered bits.
 
The Offside arms are back on minus the swivel assembly because I am waiting for the new brake back plates to arrive and they have to be fitted before the hub is pressed into the new wheel bearing. The shock absorber bush was a pain to align with the bolt hole in the arm as it was lying about 3/4" away, slackened the three nuts holding the air spring/ shock assembly to the chassis bracket which allowed it to line up, fitted the long wishbone bolt and retightened the 3 nuts. I could have aligned it using a ratchet strap but couldn't find one handy.
Tips for the day:
  • Check the length of the Lower arm rear bush bolt, the one that goes into a nut with a built in spring clip-the bolts in the OEM bolt kit had a hexagon extension at the thread end Cut this off otherwise the bolt will foul the bush bracket due to being too long. If you are going to cut them off with a hacksaw, get good quality saw blades, Eclipse or Sandvik 18 T.P.I., otherwise use anangle grinder
  • If using Polybushes check the length when fitted to the arm, especially the large front ones, then check the distance between the ears on the corresponding chassis bracket. If the bush will not go in, spread the ears apart slightly using a length of M12 threaded bar, 2 nuts and washers.
When starting the dismantling work,remove the spare wheel and plastic skirt fitted to the rear crossmember.
Start the other side today...more to come !!!
 
Great it’s coming along, keep up the good work buddy

Another way to line the struts up is let some air out of that strut , can then with a scissor jack underneath the bottom of the strut can jack it up to the wishbone

Also know that the super pro bushes are better , there has been reports of the poly bushes snapping arms

Did they send u the wrong bolt for that wishbone , haven’t seen them too long yet, wonder if someone had fitted it the wrong way round, unless I’m thinking of something else

Know there’s a 5mm difference between those lower bolts, M16 x 115mm and M16 x 120mm

Shock absorber is M16 x 225mm

Doing a top job there mate as I know what a sod it is

Look forward to some more piccies plse

Enclosed a few pics as I didn’t think it could happen but alas it does

Super pro bushes mimic the rubber bushes and settle down

The poly bushes are very hard which from what I’ve read give a hard ride , maybe because they don’t allow any give is why they snap the arms

A4E45948-F3B3-4DB2-B726-616608801C2C.jpeg
368D26B3-4302-4CEE-A49C-BE44101D26E1.jpeg
 
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