Kids need to be 12 years old to be able to sit in a side seat. this is due to the child seat legislation.
I have a 110 hard top and 4 kids. I couldn't afford the Exmoor trim fold up seats, and the cheaper ones which bolt the belts to the floor are not suitable for child booster seats.
So I've got four transit mini bus seats which all have three point safety belts included, 3 are rear facing (as permitted under the child seating legislation) lined up along the bulkhead and one is front facing need the rear door. This gives the kiddies enough space for now, but its too cramped in there for adults to use comfortably.
Having the seats rear facing also means that their is still space if carrying a load in the back.

At the end of the day you as the driver need to be comfortable with how your passengers are seated. Adults can make there own choice and take their own risk, but kids have defined rules.
 
raywin said:
Read most of it, it's a bit sobering to see:
"Every year, over 10,000 children are killed or injured while travelling in cars,"
One of my main intentions was to get a front facing seat so that I could take my grandchild in the back, need to look for a good seat and take out my sideways ones.
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But lets add a little rational and common sense here....

How many of those 10,000 are in side facing seats in a Defender? I suspect very few.

If you are pottering about locally very occasionally, the actual risk is very very low. Even more so if you are mostly at low speed.
 
300bhp/ton said:
But lets add a little rational and common sense here....

How many of those 10,000 are in side facing seats in a Defender? I suspect very few.

If you are pottering about locally very occasionally, the actual risk is very very low. Even more so if you are mostly at low speed.
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Quite honestly to me that says the majority of the 10,000 and in much safer circumstances than a sideways seat in a defender, just want to get any edge available, kids are pretty precious.
 
300bhp/ton said:
I do not believe this is the case.
Click to expand...


actually it is:

Children must normally use a child car seat until they’re 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first.

https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/using-a-child-car-seat-or-booster-seat
https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/when-a-child-can-travel-without-a-car-seat
  • not fit a child car seat in side-facing seats
Unless you like to gamble , I suppose.

A child aged 3 or older can travel in a back seat without a child car seat and without a seat belt if the vehicle doesn’t have one.

Cheers
 
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blue beasty said:
The legislation generally concerning child seats applies no matter the age of the vehicle with exceptions for 'unusual' circumstances in which case the children have to be in the safest possible seat in ascending order of age ie the sprog gets the front passenger seat while the Doris and MIL bounce around in the back.
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I spoke to VOSA, who contacted the DfT on this question. I have a reply from them:

Department for Transport said:
For adults in the front and rear, seat belts must be used if available.


For children:-


in the front: all those up to 135cms in height (or 12 years or over, whichever comes first) must use the correct child seat/booster for their weight with no exceptions. If over 135cm or 12 years and above, they are treated for the purposes of this legislation as adults;


in the rear: where seat belts are fitted, than the same rules as for front seats apply but there are a few exceptions. One of those says that if belts are not fitted in the rear, then those 3 years and above may travel unrestrained. However, those under 3 years cannot travel – they must always use the correct baby/child seat for their weight in the front or rear.


Beware of sideways facing seats: there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted in sideways facing seats – in an impact, anyone using a belt in a sideways facing seat is at increased risk of serious injury. But if seat belts are installed then they must be used by adults.


Please note especially that where seat belts are fitted, children who are legally required to use baby/child seats/boosters cannot travel in sideways facing seats because baby/child seats/boosters legally cannot be used in sideways facing seats. This does not mean that children may use an adult belt instead in these seats – it means that they cannot travel at all in sideways facing seats where belts are fitted. That may have an effect on carrying capacity. If extra seat belts are installed in the rear in order to carry children, they should be installed on forward or rearward facing seats – baby/child seats/boosters can be used in forward and rearward facing seats.


Nothing in seat belt wearing legislation prevents the carrying of adults in seats that do not have seat belts installed – even if other seats in the rear have belts fitted. It goes without saying however those seats with seat belts should be used first.


Remember that the police can take action if, in the judgement of an officer, passengers are being carried where “the manner in which they are carried is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person”. The penalties for this offence are notably higher than for a seat belt wearing offence.


If you are likely to carry passengers without seat belts, you might consult your insurer about their attitude should there be a claim. And bear in mind that if there is an impact, the body of anyone unrestrained is likely to be a considerable risk to those seated in the front or elsewhere in the rear.
Click to expand...


Essentially this means, if a child is over 3 years old, then they can travel in side facing seats WITHOUT seat belts, but cannot travel in ones with a seat belt.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Essentially this means, if a child is over 3 years old, then they can travel in side facing seats WITHOUT seat belts, but cannot travel in ones with a seat belt.
Click to expand...

See my edit which is from the next page of the link , I put there.

I still think that is a gamble I would not want to take with a child.

Cheers
 
raywin said:
Quite honestly to me that says the majority of the 10,000 and in much safer circumstances than a sideways seat in a defender, just want to get any edge available, kids are pretty precious.
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Yes, kids are so precious, it's a ****ing miracle any have survived for the past 200,000 years!!! :rolleyes:

It's about risk management. Tootling along at 30mph on fairly quiet roads is hugely unlikely to result in a 70mph roll over is it? If that is your intended use, then the risk is far lower than driving like a maniac on busy dual carriageway roads in rush hour, all year round for 1000's of miles.

Add a little more levity, do you really think sitting in the back of a Defender is truly any more dangerous than riding a push bike or walking down the pavement? Will you prevent your kids from doing those things too? :)
 
300bhp/ton said:
I spoke to VOSA, who contacted the DfT on this question. I have a reply from them:




Essentially this means, if a child is over 3 years old, then they can travel in side facing seats WITHOUT seat belts, but cannot travel in ones with a seat belt.
Click to expand...

If it's ok with you I'll copy that post and put it in the Defender and Series Tech archives.
 
neilly said:
See my edit which is from the next page of the link , I put there.

I still think that is a gamble I would not want to take with a child.

Cheers
Click to expand...
That is your choice, but I, like I suspect many on here, grew up with Land Rover's in the family and riding in the back of one is just a normal occurrence. Yes you have to be sensible, but unless you have a history of having lots of major road accidents, then the real risks are mathematically very low.

However the fact remains, it is legal to carry a child of 3 years+ in the back of a Land Rover with side facing seats and no seatbelts.


On a similar note......

Don't many buses still have no seatbelts and side facing as well as forward and rear facing seats. I don't recall children being banned from traveling on a bus. And let's not even mention things like trains or the London Underground!
 
I had Exmoor Trim fold -up, forward facing seats fitted in the back of my panel back 90 for my kids who are under 12 but only need booster seats. I spent a lot of time reaserching the legislation at the time - it was vague and confusing. These fitted the bill. I would say my insurers at the time refused to insure me tho after they were fitted as it was classed as a mod - I think I've mentioned this before on here - so it's a good idea to check with yr insurers too.
Regarding safety in general - talk to anyone who works for the emergency services and they will say don't ever even take your child out for a minute in a side facing seat or without the proper booster/carry seat. It only takes a second for some daft f****er to drive into you which happened to me when one of my lads was in the front passenger seat.
 
NorfolkBird said:
Regarding safety in general - talk to anyone who works for the emergency services and they will say don't ever even take your child out for a minute in a side facing seat or without the proper booster/carry seat. It only takes a second for some daft f****er to drive into you which happened to me when one of my lads was in the front passenger seat.
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It's not that I don't agree with your sentiments, nor that I'm uncaring. But exactly how many times a year do you (or the average person), manage to roll your vehicle on the public highway?

Yes, it only takes a second for something bad to happen....

IMG-20170302-WA00160.jpg


So I guess walking to the shops will be out of the question too?

3s_bubble_narrowweb__200x335.jpg
 
300bhp/ton said:
It's not that I don't agree with your sentiments, nor that I'm uncaring. But exactly how many times a year do you (or the average person), manage to roll your vehicle on the public highway?

Yes, it only takes a second for something bad to happen....

IMG-20170302-WA00160.jpg


So I guess walking to the shops will be out of the question too?

3s_bubble_narrowweb__200x335.jpg
Click to expand...
It dunt hv to roll to cause life-changing injuries.
 
NorfolkBird said:
It dunt hv to roll to cause life-changing injuries.
Click to expand...
Indeed no. Which is why I said it's about risk management, the type of driving, the distance, the types of road and the duration.

Just as another FYI....

This stat must have taken side facing seats into account, as at the time, that was pretty much the only seating option.





So statistically speaking, it would seem they are quite safe.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Indeed no. Which is why I said it's about risk management, the type of driving, the distance, the types of road and the duration.

Just as another FYI....

This stat must have taken side facing seats into account, as at the time, that was pretty much the only seating option.





So statistically speaking, it would seem they are quite safe.
Click to expand...
Statistically risk maybe low, but why take the risk when you don't have to?
 
NorfolkBird said:
Statistically risk maybe low, but why take the risk when you don't have to?
Click to expand...
Because everything is a risk, going in any car, walking down the street. Trying to polarise it and turn it into black and white of what is or isn't safe is just foolish and a way of deluding yourself to risk. Making you think you are more safe than you really are and being fearful of things which are probably no more risky.
 
Not sure what this is all about but looked at simply life is full of risks, things I did when i was a kid make me cringe now, how many miles did I ride when cycle helmets were unheard of but now I know two people who have suffered serious head injury on bicycles.
Seems logical to me, given the option to reduce risk or increase risk wont take me long to decide.
 
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