Might I suggest another change of pads and another disc clean. If the disc was as bad as you say then it's likely that the pads will have been contaminated with whateveritwas and another clean and change might do it fully .. 
Raph
Member
Yes definitely, I was thinking that - the first application of the brakes just manoevring out the drive would have deposited a greasy pad-print on the discs. I've got another new set here, should have put them in when the wheels were off...Might I suggest another change of pads and another disc clean. If the disc was as bad as you say then it's likely that the pads will have been contaminated with whateveritwas and another clean and change might do it fully ..
Raph
Member
OK... sadly there's a whole other instalment to this!
I went to clean the discs off again, started with the NS which seems to be the one still clattering albeit now only occasionally. With the disc cleaned and new pads in there, I gave it a spin to have a quick look at it running - MASSIVE side-to-side clatter. I could see the disc runout, so I put the dial gauge on it just to check, and I don't know what was going on when I checked it before, but it's now 0.2mm and clearly visible.
And whatever I do it's exactly that much - if it were due to sloppy fitting it would vary.
I've taken the bearings out, cleaned the hub out meticulously and refitted the bearings, same runout, tried new set of bearings, same runout, I even checked the depth of the bearings once fitted, looked meticulously at the surfaces the bearing tracks sit against... always exactly 0.2mm runout. And BTW it isn't the disc wonky on the hub, as the runout is the same on the hub outer surface, though I re-positioned the disc on the hub just in case... no difference!
SO - is it possible I've got a duff hub? I got it from Paddocks two years ago - coincidentally how long I've had the clattering! I can't remember if it was marked "Britpart" but you never know, maybe it was. I can't think of any way I could have knackered it, it's a pretty solid chunk of metal!
I'm tempted to just get another one. I can't be unlucky twice. Or is there anything else I should check first?
I went to clean the discs off again, started with the NS which seems to be the one still clattering albeit now only occasionally. With the disc cleaned and new pads in there, I gave it a spin to have a quick look at it running - MASSIVE side-to-side clatter. I could see the disc runout, so I put the dial gauge on it just to check, and I don't know what was going on when I checked it before, but it's now 0.2mm and clearly visible.
And whatever I do it's exactly that much - if it were due to sloppy fitting it would vary.
I've taken the bearings out, cleaned the hub out meticulously and refitted the bearings, same runout, tried new set of bearings, same runout, I even checked the depth of the bearings once fitted, looked meticulously at the surfaces the bearing tracks sit against... always exactly 0.2mm runout. And BTW it isn't the disc wonky on the hub, as the runout is the same on the hub outer surface, though I re-positioned the disc on the hub just in case... no difference!
SO - is it possible I've got a duff hub? I got it from Paddocks two years ago - coincidentally how long I've had the clattering! I can't remember if it was marked "Britpart" but you never know, maybe it was. I can't think of any way I could have knackered it, it's a pretty solid chunk of metal!
I'm tempted to just get another one. I can't be unlucky twice. Or is there anything else I should check first?
Hmmm, 0.2mm doesn't seem to bad compared to the 0.15 max allowed. Doing a bit of maths that translates to approx 0.53mm on the outside edge of the tyre. That's not massive.
I'm having the opposite problem, my last two set of pads (front calipers) have been tighter than a mouse's ear, in the calipers.
Raph
Member
Well, I can clearly see the pads shifting side to side, and at a certain speed it sort of grabs them and bashes them against the inside of the caliper, even after cleaning the disc. I think initially some residue cleaner lubes the contact so the pads behave but as soon as it's evaporated the clattering resumes, each pad bashes the caliper in turn as the disc goes round.
Just ordered another hub from Rimmer. I'm off to France in a week, gotta sort it before I go!
Raph
Member
New hub from Rimmer... perfect! I considered going genuine but this is a cheapie at £60-odd.
Runout at the edge of the disc is now just under 0.1mm, strangely it's almost nil at the hub outer edge... I was hoping for better than that on the disc but now that the brake pads aren't moving about at all while the disc turns, that's just fine.
Only problem is, now that I've taken the whole lot apart so many times, the disc bolt threads are looking very tired and worn, feeling as though the bolts were getting softer as they tighten up... they're done up to torque but just didn't feel positive as they got up to torque, felt as though I could keep on tightening them and the torque wrench wouldn't register any higher, they'd just keep turning... Gut feeling says I've got to replace them. Everything else felt ok, touch wood!
Runout at the edge of the disc is now just under 0.1mm, strangely it's almost nil at the hub outer edge... I was hoping for better than that on the disc but now that the brake pads aren't moving about at all while the disc turns, that's just fine.
Only problem is, now that I've taken the whole lot apart so many times, the disc bolt threads are looking very tired and worn, feeling as though the bolts were getting softer as they tighten up... they're done up to torque but just didn't feel positive as they got up to torque, felt as though I could keep on tightening them and the torque wrench wouldn't register any higher, they'd just keep turning... Gut feeling says I've got to replace them. Everything else felt ok, touch wood!
Did you use threadlock? I suggest you follow your gut and change them. Peace of mind, very important!
Raph
Member
... So I got new bolts, a new bottle of threadlock, put it all back together with proper torques etc... and it clattered like a pair of demented castanets, all over France for two weeks.
Today I fitted a new disc, there's still a hint of clicking, nowhere as bad as before but still faintly there. And the side that isn't clicking has started squealing... AAAAARGH! I've got a set of genuine pads with back plates coming in the post, hoping that'll improve matters a bit.
Throughout all this, gotta say, the actual braking is still FANTASTIC!
Today I fitted a new disc, there's still a hint of clicking, nowhere as bad as before but still faintly there. And the side that isn't clicking has started squealing... AAAAARGH! I've got a set of genuine pads with back plates coming in the post, hoping that'll improve matters a bit.
Throughout all this, gotta say, the actual braking is still FANTASTIC!
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discomania
Well-Known Member
Check your calipers, the seat where the pad sits wears and allows the pads to rattle in the wind. I welded an extra bit of metal onto the pad backing plate and machined it to the correct shape and contour, thus the pad backing plate made up for the list material on the caliper body. Silent brakes! Ran it like that for over a year.
discomania
Well-Known Member
I see. You said you replaced it all so I assumed that was all OK.
Raph
Member
The latest: I've got some genuine pads with bonded anti-squeal shims plus separate backplates, the ones with half moon cut outs, I've fitted those but haven't driven it yet. They do seem a tighter fit so I'm hopeful they'll stop it clattering.
I was getting really ****ed off with it - two different hubs and two different discs and not a single combination of the two, in any of 5 positions of either disc on either hub ran true... I was really starting to get exasperated with the Flintstones level engineering, I think the average supermarket trolley has more accurately machined parts. I did weld a bit onto the edges of the pads, that reduced the clacking very slightly. Hopefully genuine pads with backplates will make a difference - the runout is now just within the limit in the manual, for what that's worth.
PS the idea that the pads are wearing out a larger cavity in the calipers - I thought that too, but looking at the calipers there's no evidence that the pads have worn a groove bigger than was there before - there's a good 3-4mm play at each edge of the pads, but it really doesn't look like it's been worn out, the caliper looks perfectly straight.
I was getting really ****ed off with it - two different hubs and two different discs and not a single combination of the two, in any of 5 positions of either disc on either hub ran true... I was really starting to get exasperated with the Flintstones level engineering, I think the average supermarket trolley has more accurately machined parts. I did weld a bit onto the edges of the pads, that reduced the clacking very slightly. Hopefully genuine pads with backplates will make a difference - the runout is now just within the limit in the manual, for what that's worth.
PS the idea that the pads are wearing out a larger cavity in the calipers - I thought that too, but looking at the calipers there's no evidence that the pads have worn a groove bigger than was there before - there's a good 3-4mm play at each edge of the pads, but it really doesn't look like it's been worn out, the caliper looks perfectly straight.
Colthebrummie
Well-Known Member
Raph
Member
The whole axle isn't the correct one for my vehicle, as it's a later axle - came with brakes on it, no particular reason to think they weren't the original brakes for that axle.
It used to be fine until I had to re-furb the axle, I had to replace the hubs cos the drive flange threads had started to strip. That's when the clattering started!
It used to be fine until I had to re-furb the axle, I had to replace the hubs cos the drive flange threads had started to strip. That's when the clattering started!
jamesmartin
Well-Known Member
any pics of pads and caliper
Raph
Member
I'll do some pics when I get a chance - BUT meanwhile I fitted the genuine pads, with shims... and the clattering has totally gone. I've only driven about 30 miles since but so far there isn't the slightest hint of any noise.
All the clattering pads were AP Lockheed (Delphi) and Mintex, none with any shims of any sort.
Might still be early days to assume it's fixed, I've already had one false success above when it didn't clatter for the first run round the block... then started again.
All the clattering pads were AP Lockheed (Delphi) and Mintex, none with any shims of any sort.
Might still be early days to assume it's fixed, I've already had one false success above when it didn't clatter for the first run round the block... then started again.
Raph
Member
130 mile round trip yesterday... NO clattering, not ever, not once. I even coasted down a couple of hills to listen out for it. The Flintstones supermarket trolley is finally silenced!
CONCLUSION - genuine pads and shims solved the problem. I hope I won't be back next week saying it's started clattering again...
PS I reckon the pads aren't any different to the previous ones, the difference is in the bonded backing, plus the steel shims, that put a bias on the trailing edge of the contact with the disc, a sort "toe-in" of the pads, same as you'd do on bicycle brakes to stop them squealing. Though none of that explains the fact that they don't dance up and down on the wonky disc.
CONCLUSION - genuine pads and shims solved the problem. I hope I won't be back next week saying it's started clattering again...
PS I reckon the pads aren't any different to the previous ones, the difference is in the bonded backing, plus the steel shims, that put a bias on the trailing edge of the contact with the disc, a sort "toe-in" of the pads, same as you'd do on bicycle brakes to stop them squealing. Though none of that explains the fact that they don't dance up and down on the wonky disc.
