Raph

Raph

Member
After a rear axle rebuild I noticed a load of clattering, rhythmic and corresponding to wheel rotation i.e. proportional to road speed irrespective of being in gear or not, and it stops immediately when braking - even the tiniest touch of brakes silences it every time. Sometimes there's also an extra little "click" when initially applying the brakes.

Turned out I'd fitted an outer bearing track a bit wonky, not bashed it quite home in the hub, and the disc run-out at the edge of the disc was about 0.15mm. With the wheel off looking at the brake pads I could see them clattering about with the movement of the disc.

SO I took both hubs apart, refitted the bearings properly, now the runout is 0.1mm one side and 0.05mm the other. But it's still clattering - same noise, still rhythmical with the wheels turning, not as bad as before, but still there at certain speeds, still disappears instantly with the slightly touch of brakes

I'm wondering if the clattering has worn out a larger and larger slot for the pads to bang about in? Which would mean I need new calipers...

PS online manual says maximum runout is 0.15mm, so even the original badly fitted hub was at the limit but ok in theory.

Anyone else had this happen?
 
Raph said:
After a rear axle rebuild I noticed a load of clattering, rhythmic and corresponding to wheel rotation i.e. proportional to road speed irrespective of being in gear or not, and it stops immediately when braking - even the tiniest touch of brakes silences it every time. Sometimes there's also an extra little "click" when initially applying the brakes.

Turned out I'd fitted an outer bearing track a bit wonky, not bashed it quite home in the hub, and the disc run-out at the edge of the disc was about 0.15mm. With the wheel off looking at the brake pads I could see them clattering about with the movement of the disc.

SO I took both hubs apart, refitted the bearings properly, now the runout is 0.1mm one side and 0.05mm the other. But it's still clattering - same noise, still rhythmical with the wheels turning, not as bad as before, but still there at certain speeds, still disappears instantly with the slightly touch of brakes

I'm wondering if the clattering has worn out a larger and larger slot for the pads to bang about in? Which would mean I need new calipers...

PS online manual says maximum runout is 0.15mm, so even the original badly fitted hub was at the limit but ok in theory.

Anyone else had this happen?
Click to expand...
I presume you've checked the springs or spring clips?
 
Yep, Lockheed/Delphi pads. New Lockheed discs, and fairly recent new pistons in the calipers. Apart from the clattering the brakes are absolutely fantastic, I never thought they could be this good! The pedal response is excellent, they're really even, progressive, powerful, pull up totally straight. But they clatter!

And yes, I checked the pins and springs. For a while I put stronger springs in, thinking it'd keep the pads off the disc a bit better, but changed my mind and put the original ones back in cos a) not a good idea to meddle with the design, and b) it didn't make any difference anyway, still clattered.
 
Are pads exactly the same as the old ones? I recently replaced a set and had the opposite problem. I had to file a few thou off the ends to make them fit in the caliper.

Col
 
Colthebrummie said:
Are pads exactly the same as the old ones? I recently replaced a set and had the opposite problem. I had to file a few thou off the ends to make them fit in the caliper.

Col
Click to expand...

I'm envious! Do you by any chance know the part number of yours? These here are STC1601AP.

The last two lots have been exactly the same dimensions and I've got another spare set, also the same. I remember thinking there was a lot of movement within the cavity so I checked the previous pads and the spare set, they're all exactly the same.
 
Try the old school method of a small smear of copper grease on the pad backplate where the piston pushes on it. It really is a smear, not a blob .... supposed to hold the pad and stop it vibrating. Do it on mine whenever I change them.
 
Two sets ago (Mintex) squealed like mad so yes I've done the copper grease thing ever since then.

I've chocked the front wheels and taken a back wheel off each side in turn and put it in gear to watch the hub turning, the pads do move about a bit, obviously I can't apply the brake while it's on axle stands and turning but I can see that the pads get pulled up by the disc and bash the side of the slot in the caliper, that explains the "clack" when I apply the brake, but the rhythmic clatter when the brake isn't applied is a bit baffling, especially now the run-out is within spec.

It could just be that there are deposits such as smudges of half-dried grease on one or both discs that is pulling the pads along for half the revolution... I'll give them a thorough clean with brake cleaner tomorrow and see if there's any difference.

The whole thing would be a lot more reassuring if the pads were a nice snug fit in the caliper, but these seem to have plenty of space to swim about.
 
By the way, thanks for all the replies - I really appreciate it, even if I don't ever manage to sort this out!!
 
Raph said:
Two sets ago (Mintex) squealed like mad so yes I've done the copper grease thing ever since then.

I've chocked the front wheels and taken a back wheel off each side in turn and put it in gear to watch the hub turning, the pads do move about a bit, obviously I can't apply the brake while it's on axle stands and turning but I can see that the pads get pulled up by the disc and bash the side of the slot in the caliper, that explains the "clack" when I apply the brake, but the rhythmic clatter when the brake isn't applied is a bit baffling, especially now the run-out is within spec.

It could just be that there are deposits such as smudges of half-dried grease on one or both discs that is pulling the pads along for half the revolution... I'll give them a thorough clean with brake cleaner tomorrow and see if there's any difference.

The whole thing would be a lot more reassuring if the pads were a nice snug fit in the caliper, but these seem to have plenty of space to swim about.
Click to expand...
thats the problem too much space, pads should be snug
 
Three sets in a row were too loose... so either I find different pads, or different calipers! Or add a bit of weld on the edges of the pads and grind them back down to a snug fit? Seems strange to need to do that but it's the only way I can think of.
 
Raph said:
Three sets in a row were too loose... so either I find different pads, or different calipers! Or add a bit of weld on the edges of the pads and grind them back down to a snug fit? Seems strange to need to do that but it's the only way I can think of.
Click to expand...
pads can be poor a lot of named parts are cheap badged pattern parts,you can be lucky and get good or unlucky and fit sevaral sets before finding reasonable, old calipers are likely to be worn,but theres no guarantee new would be perfect ,its worth loking at the pads while someone applies the brakes then releases if pistons retract too far pads become too loose so rattle
 
I have this identical issue with the rattling as well. It is almost as if you wrote about my experience. At the slight touch of brakes it goes away as well.
New pins and springs only reduces the rattling for a couple days.
What I think is the cause of mine is the condition of my disc/rotors. They are quite worn and seems to have a lip at the outer edge. Check yours and let me know if this is something we might have in common.
I made an order for discs and pads and will replace them in the near future anyway.
 
LeftFoot said:
I have this identical issue with the rattling as well. It is almost as if you wrote about my experience. At the slight touch of brakes it goes away as well.
New pins and springs only reduces the rattling for a couple days.
What I think is the cause of mine is the condition of my disc/rotors. They are quite worn and seems to have a lip at the outer edge. Check yours and let me know if this is something we might have in common.
I made an order for discs and pads and will replace them in the near future anyway.
Click to expand...
Sadly the discs on mine are brand new, they still haven't quite worn off the machining marks. Makes it even more annoying!

You can probably grind the lip off old discs, I did this with the previous discs on mine and they were quite good after that... I only had to change them cos after a long period of not driving the motor they rusted so deep I just had to replace them.
 
Raph said:
Sadly the discs on mine are brand new, they still haven't quite worn off the machining marks. Makes it even more annoying!
Click to expand...
There goes my confidence in my theory... :confused:. Hope it is not indeed the calipers. We will see I guess..
 
LeftFoot said:
There goes my confidence in my theory... :confused:. Hope it is not indeed the calipers. We will see I guess..
Click to expand...
Have you checked the run-out? And cleaned off the discs with proper brake cleaner?

The calipers can't be causing movement of the pads, but I suppose must be allowing too much movement by having too much leeway around them. I'm going to give the discs a good clean with brake cleaner today and report back!
 
Ok, I may be rejoicing too soon... but I think it's CURED!!! :)

And it's REALLY stupid - I've simply cleaned the discs off with standard brake cleaner. I noticed while holding a dry rag against the turning disc that the friction was pulsing really badly, but as soon as I'd cleaned it with the rag soaked in brake cleaner - took a few goes until no more filth came off it - then the friction felt totally smooth and constant, and as an added bonus... the pads stopped clattering instantly.

NB I used a stick to hold the rag against the back of the disc, where the backplate restricts access - I definitely wasn't going to stick my fingers in there with the hub turning.

Just off on some errands, will report back!
 
Having done a round trip of about 20 miles, it's almost totally cured!

At around 30mph on overrun there's still a hint of clatter, I can only just hear it on overrun when the engine's slightly quieter and it only does it at that speed. Otherwise it's silent, graceful, and thoroughly relaxing, as any diesel hardtop 110 with no soundproofing should be!
 
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