james6546 · Aug 11, 2015

Hey.

Got a problem with our TD4 FL1. The clutch bite point has gone really low.

I have done some searching and it looks like the problem is with either the master or the slave cylinder, the slave is in the gearbox itself isn't it?

So is it worth me looking at this myself, or should we take it to DLS? I have bled the clutch on my defender, but couldn't even find the master cylinder on the Freelander!

Revbot · Aug 11, 2015

Hi,
I had the same a number of years ago. First time I made the mistake of doing it myself, I've done many clutches but will never attempt a Freelander again! Pig of a job. It was the slave pipe that leaked on mine & I made the mistake of fitting an after market clutch & slave/release bearing & it lasted 12 months & leaked again. Next time I took it to DLS & they did it in a morning for about £480 I think. It's been OK ever since (3 years). If it's the slave that's leaking you should see fluid dripping out the bell housing & on to the belly pan (or at least I did). My advice is go to DLS. Having said that I believe the master cylinders can also fail so worth checking that first. Hope this helps. Stuart.

james6546 · Aug 11, 2015

Revbot said:
Hi,
I had the same a number of years ago. First time I made the mistake of doing it myself, I've done many clutches but will never attempt a Freelander again! Pig of a job. It was the slave pipe that leaked on mine & I made the mistake of fitting an after market clutch & slave/release bearing & it lasted 12 months & leaked again. Next time I took it to DLS & they did it in a morning for about £480 I think. It's been OK ever since (3 years). If it's the slave that's leaking you should see fluid dripping out the bell housing & on to the belly pan (or at least I did). My advice is go to DLS. Having said that I believe the master cylinders can also fail so worth checking that first. Hope this helps. Stuart.

Cheers Stuart,
That was kind of my thoughts too, I'll check to see if I can see any leaking fluid when I get back from work. But from what you have said I think we will just take it to DLS.

james6546 · Aug 27, 2015

Help again please....

DLS have had the FL for a few days, have replaced the master cylinder and bled it, but it doesn't seem much better even though they claimed they had fixed it.

I can push it down easily with my hand, and it doesn't seem to do anything until the last inch. That's not right is it? I don't see how DLS can say it is ok?? I guess we take it back to them, but it is easier said than done as I have to ask my mum for a lift!

andyfreelandy · Aug 27, 2015

Hi, I have written on this subject before but one problem I found is that the push rod in the master on the TD4 when pressed by the clutch pedal does not push the piston to the bottom of the cylinder and so some air can remain which gives a weak resistance to the push. I think this is why the master comes pre-bled, but mine was solved by taking out the master, leave it connected to the clutch slave, carefully remove the push rod (circlip off, remove push rod, replace circlip) then whilst opening bleed valve on gearbox end push piston all the way to the bottom of the slave (use a long rod or screwdriver). This should expel all air, replace push rod and refit ! Bit fiddly but worked for me. I think the clue is, easy to push down till the last inch - that is almost certainly air. Good luck.

james6546 · Aug 28, 2015

andyfreelandy said:
Hi, I have written on this subject before but one problem I found is that the push rod in the master on the TD4 when pressed by the clutch pedal does not push the piston to the bottom of the cylinder and so some air can remain which gives a weak resistance to the push. I think this is why the master comes pre-bled, but mine was solved by taking out the master, leave it connected to the clutch slave, carefully remove the push rod (circlip off, remove push rod, replace circlip) then whilst opening bleed valve on gearbox end push piston all the way to the bottom of the slave (use a long rod or screwdriver). This should expel all air, replace push rod and refit ! Bit fiddly but worked for me. I think the clue is, easy to push down till the last inch - that is almost certainly air. Good luck.

Thank you. That sounds like an epically difficult thing to do but I might have to attempt it. Is there a guide anywhere on just bleeding the clutch? I have done it on my 90 but the FL looks completely different!

I thought it sounded like air in it, but DLS said the next thing to do is to take the gearbox out and investigate which will cost £800.

andyfreelandy · Aug 28, 2015

Find the bleed valve and depress clutch like bleeding brakes - see photo.

Master cylinder is easy to remove, pedal linkage clips in and then master simply twists out of bulkhead ! Hope I've not over simplified it !!!!

tyrefitter · Aug 30, 2015

my clutch pedal has been low to the floor since i have had it and thats over two years now ,still changes gear okay
Trev

alfapat · Jan 10, 2016

andyfreelandy said:
Hi, I have written on this subject before but one problem I found is that the push rod in the master on the TD4 when pressed by the clutch pedal does not push the piston to the bottom of the cylinder and so some air can remain which gives a weak resistance to the push. I think this is why the master comes pre-bled, but mine was solved by taking out the master, leave it connected to the clutch slave, carefully remove the push rod (circlip off, remove push rod, replace circlip) then whilst opening bleed valve on gearbox end push piston all the way to the bottom of the slave (use a long rod or screwdriver). This should expel all air, replace push rod and refit ! Bit fiddly but worked for me. I think the clue is, easy to push down till the last inch - that is almost certainly air. Good luck.

Hi been searching for clues to resolve hydraulic problems on a Td4 I have.
Back in early summer , 2015, Ihad to replace the master cylinder as it was leaking at the push rod, fair enough , I replace with genuine and two months later it failed. Put the car into dealers to get warranty and replacement and they said no as a new one wasn't going to fix it. They reckoned dirt had got into the reservoir from the bulkhead, like bits of foam etc., fair enough I thought , I'll take it away and sesolve myself, be it that or a very expensive gearbox off job.
Now although Ihave been able to extract some more very small quantities of bits , I have completely flushed the system and bled with a pressure system to the bleed valve using a not so good Sealey universal cap fitted to the awkward master reservoir. I seem to get he pedal back for one stroke but then it disappears again and gradually worsens.
This is not my first attempt at bleeding it, and running out of luck as it were.
Do you think that that from what I have described could be the same please.

freelance · Jan 10, 2016

I think you can improve things by leaving clutch pedal jammed down overnight, but it would seem that master cyl is faulty,

alfapat · Jan 11, 2016

freelance said:
I think you can improve things by leaving clutch pedal jammed down overnight, but it would seem that master cyl is faulty,

Thanks for replying , I have done this several times (leaving clutch in overnight , incl. last night and many more), but it feels like it does improve the pedal with much more hydraulic travel , then reverts back to less and gears 1st and reverse become resistant as usual.
Before I try to remove master once again and try the push rod suggestion on this thread , I would park the car facing up hill on my ramps with the clutch in again overnight. See if it shifts the air if any .
I know by getting another master cyl might help the situation but the dealer tried another and got no improvement, so would not give me a replacement , but then they blamed the system on dirt at the time , which I hope have cleared!

Might be worth a punt on a another make of master cyl which would be cheaper ?

freelance · Jan 11, 2016

Think you need the nose downhill, preferably with near side lower than offside, quality of master cyl, is more important than cost!!

alfapat · Jan 11, 2016

Since last night after several flushes and bleeds over two days , I left the car with the clutch pedal depressed as I have done on numerous occasions and tried it 12 pm the pedal felt fine with a full travel and very little play.It was left all afternoon and tried it at 5 pm and still relatively fine , so now it has been left for another day, to see if any change develops with the clutch left up . things are looking up! ----- a little .

alfapat · Jan 12, 2016

Well only a very little, no improvement , maybe a little worse , cold weather maybe to blame as 1st /Rev a little baulky. I have left depressed for 24 hrs. Could be me also

pscan.eu · Jan 13, 2016

I recently bought a TD4.
The biting point was very low, and there also seemed to be dampness on the pushrod, so I assumed it was a master cylinder problem.
I put a new master on and bled it, and it was great for four or five days.
Then the pedal went to the floor.
After bleeding it again it was good again for a week, and then went back to it's original behaviour with a low biting point.
Now the car has a new solid flywheel, clutch and a Tazu metal slave cylinder and it seems to be fine now.
If I get any more trouble with it I will be finding a way to bodge in a generic Girling master cylinder. The 0.7" ones are the same bore as the original and so it should work.
I already found out that Tazu will sell the quick release connector for the master end separately.
The car has 127,000 miles so I think it's fair enough really. There wasn't much meat left on the centre plate either.

alfapat · Jan 13, 2016

pscan.eu said:
I recently bought a TD4.
The biting point was very low, and there also seemed to be dampness on the pushrod, so I assumed it was a master cylinder problem.
I put a new master on and bled it, and it was great for four or five days.
Then the pedal went to the floor.
After bleeding it again it was good again for a week, and then went back to it's original behaviour with a low biting point.
Now the car has a new solid flywheel, clutch and a Tazu metal slave cylinder and it seems to be fine now.
If I get any more trouble with it I will be finding a way to bodge in a generic Girling master cylinder. The 0.7" ones are the same bore as the original and so it should work.
I already found out that Tazu will sell the quick release connector for the master end separately.
The car has 127,000 miles so I think it's fair enough really. There wasn't much meat left on the centre plate either.

Good that you got so where , not ready for new clutch , please no more expense!
Going to try removing circling and pushing air out with pushrod to remaining travel to expel all air.FRIDAY

pscan.eu · Jan 14, 2016

I thought that it would be a big problem, but I paid only £200 labour to have a new flywheel, clutch and slave cylinder put in, and this is in London. I thought that it looked like a nightmare but the mechanic said "it's just bolts". I guess that it's easier if you have a 4 post lift and air tools like him though.

alfapat · Jan 14, 2016

Yes , a lot easier, never had the luxury , done a few gearboxes but never this.
I'm going to try the clutch rod trick tomorrow, and a pressure bleed, if necessary , but I don't want upset anything if the rod expels any air in the master , so hears hoping.
Clutch excellent tonight after leaving pedal depressed for two days, so if anything happens then I'd expect it to revert back to a half clutch by tomorrow as it happened before.

alfapat · Jan 16, 2016

Well I had to try the clutch rod trick today , but alas , I'm inclined to think that this master cylinder is truly not up to working as it should. If anything I think it's worse. I've lost all good pressure I had this morning and can't get back the pedal at all. I have left the pedal depressed overnight to see if I get back anything like a normal clutch tomorrow.
If the pedal returns something tomorrow anything like a normal clutch tomorrow then the master cylinder is definitely at fault. The only thing left is a pressure bleed, which I can also do. Doing a manual bleed by way of up down pedal , lose close , shut bleed nipple doesn't work too well , which leads to think the Mstr./ cly is faulty. So more update tomorrow frustrating or what!,,,,,,,....?.

alfapat · Jan 16, 2016

Sorry this seems like a long blog , but I'm just trying to prove Landrover wrong , and charging me 100 pounds for checking out a crap master cylinder to say there is nothing wrong with it. -----Wrong !!! I say !

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