S

stingclive33

New Member
Hi, I have had a slow smokey starter problem which my garage fixed eventually by replacing the fuel pump and faulty glow plugs, but when I picked it up I noticed a clicking noise comming from the fop front of the engine.

The garage think that it,s a timing chain problem and tell me that the hydraulic tensioning system keeps the chain at the correct tension. They are trying to flush the hydraulics through hopefully this will free them up. Other wise it,s a new chain at 12 plus hours.

It did not have this problem before the fuel pump/glow plug replacement but I wonder if all the constant cranking of the engine may have streched the chain.

The garage have been really helpful but I wonder if you guys have any observations.


Cheers
 
Just make sure your belt is at the right tension otherwise they can cause a rattle. my tensioner had seized & it sounded dreadful, but a squirt of WD40 & a little lever on the tensioner sorted it

Steve ;)
 
Hi, they did spray some WD40 but I didn't see any pressure being applied to the tensioner. Is the tensioner easy to get at I have not looked.
 
stingclive33 said:
Hi, they did spray some WD40 but I didn't see any pressure being applied to the tensioner. Is the tensioner easy to get at I have not looked.
Click to expand...
Yes easy just need to take off the top front plastic cover, the tensioner pivots in the block & mine had seized so I got a lever in & gave it a little help so it pivots again, hey presto, silent ! :)
 
I think one of you is talking about the accessory drive belt tensioner, and the other the timing chain tensioner, the former easy to get to, the latter decidedly not!

How bad is this ticking sound? Bit of a coincidence that you should notice this ticking sound after the engine has been worked on, do you think the ticking sound is new, or are you just noticing it now?

When you say fuel pump, do you mean the in-tank pump?
 
If it is the chain, there are infact two of them, one from the crank to the FIP, and then another from there up to the camshaft, both have oil pressure assisted spring tensioners.
TBH, I would be very supprised if the tensioners were at fault, unless the engine has done a lot of short trips where it's not got up to operating temp for a good while to 'cook' out all the water and other nasties the gunge up an engine (diesels are far less prone to gunge up compared to petrols due to the amount of detergent in diesel oil) I took one apart the had done 115k and it looked like new.
Investigate everything else before going down this road!!
 
lanmjdun said:
I think one of you is talking about the accessory drive belt tensioner, and the other the timing chain tensioner, the former easy to get to, the latter decidedly not!

How bad is this ticking sound? Bit of a coincidence that you should notice this ticking sound after the engine has been worked on, do you think the ticking sound is new, or are you just noticing it now?

When you say fuel pump, do you mean the in-tank pump?
Click to expand...

Yep im talking about the belt tensioner because when mine seized it rattled like a good un !
Steve
 
javars said:
Yep im talking about the belt tensioner because when mine seized it rattled like a good un !
Steve
Click to expand...

Did you getting a buzzing vibration from this, around 1250-1850 rpms? I have the this and was wondering is the tensioner causing it...
 
lanmjdun said:
Did you getting a buzzing vibration from this, around 1250-1850 rpms? I have the this and was wondering is the tensioner causing it...
Click to expand...

It was worse at tickover/low revs, it also made the steering jumpy as the belt drives the power steering pump as well. But it did sound like a mechanical failure.
Steve
 
Hi guys sorry I didn't respond but I have been away; in short as you have guessed I am no mechanic, so this is what the mechanic said (there was no rattling noise before the car went in and the rattling sounds like a chain which is very rhythmical and can be detected right at the front of the engine at the very top. I listened to his stether scope gizmo and you can hear it slapping around, he says you can't adjust the chain and need 12 hours to strip it down (huge cost)

The mechanic said he tested the fuel pump by taking it apart and measuring the flow over a period of time (actually nothing came out) but once opened he says that you have to have a new one any way.

I before and he whilst he had the car {prior to the rattle} craked it over for a good 15 to 2o seconds before it smoked into life. When the previously fitted faulty glow plugs were replaced and the fuel pump replaced it starts first touch. with a rattle.

I started to look at a replacement engine if this is going to so expensive having just spent £1300

Thanks a lot for you help


Clive

PS the mechanic could not have been more helpfull especially over the smokey starting problem
 
Hi further to my last diatribe the garage are 95% sure it' the timing chain but still say 5% that it's not. Do I risk running it with the rattle (only rattles when hot) sounds like a stone in the tyre tread when you drive it, or do I pay around £2000 (just spent £1300 on it) what would you guys do???
 
stingclive33 said:
Hi guys sorry I didn't respond but I have been away; in short as you have guessed I am no mechanic, so this is what the mechanic said (there was no rattling noise before the car went in and the rattling sounds like a chain which is very rhythmical and can be detected right at the front of the engine at the very top. I listened to his stether scope gizmo and you can hear it slapping around, he says you can't adjust the chain and need 12 hours to strip it down (huge cost)

The mechanic said he tested the fuel pump by taking it apart and measuring the flow over a period of time (actually nothing came out) but once opened he says that you have to have a new one any way.

I before and he whilst he had the car {prior to the rattle} craked it over for a good 15 to 2o seconds before it smoked into life. When the previously fitted faulty glow plugs were replaced and the fuel pump replaced it starts first touch. with a rattle.

I started to look at a replacement engine if this is going to so expensive having just spent £1300

Thanks a lot for you help


Clive

PS the mechanic could not have been more helpfull especially over the smokey starting problem
Click to expand...



Seems to me you should complain.

OK the engine may now start quicker but why did he remove the engine fuel pump to test it, the fuel pump requires inputs from the vehicles control system to work. Plus he stated it was a non-serviceable unit why strip it in the first place?

There are 2 timing chains in the BMW engine one from the crankshaft to fuel pump and one from the fuel pump to camshaft. It sound like theres problem with either the chain tensioner or the engine timing has been allowed to slip to me. There only seems to be chain tensioner on the lower chain according to the manual so I am assuming that the fuel pump must be on an offset twist type of adjustment to tension the upper timing chain.

The timing chest go's from the sump to valve cover any noise in this area will be almost impossible to pinpoint whats causing it, so the only answer is a strip down again, sounds like the guys dropped a big one and is trying to charge you for his cock up.

After spending 1300.00 I'd be jumping up and down demanding a fix or my money back and paying another 2000.00 his hav'in a laugh.

If it didn't make a rattling noise before it shouldn't now.

I'd try taking it to an independent Land Rover garage or to a BMW independent for advice on the history/problem, pay them to diagnose/inspect it then make the first guy do it for free or pay for the repair else where.

If you are a member of the AA/RAC ask their advice or a trip to the CAB is called for.
 
If they have replaced the FIP and didn't use the proper tool to hold the drive sprocket in a fixed position while the old pump was removed and the new one fitted, it's possible the chain could have slackened off enough for the tensioner to have become dis-lodged, or the spring to have popped out.
Have the cam box cover off, you will be able to see the top chain and part of the tensioner, see if the tensioner can be pushed back a tad with a suitable leaver, you should feel it push back towards the chain to take up the slack when released.

stingclive33 said:
Hi guys sorry I didn't respond but I have been away; in short as you have guessed I am no mechanic, so this is what the mechanic said (there was no rattling noise before the car went in and the rattling sounds like a chain which is very rhythmical and can be detected right at the front of the engine at the very top. I listened to his stether scope gizmo and you can hear it slapping around, he says you can't adjust the chain and need 12 hours to strip it down (huge cost)

The mechanic said he tested the fuel pump by taking it apart and measuring the flow over a period of time (actually nothing came out) but once opened he says that you have to have a new one any way.

I before and he whilst he had the car {prior to the rattle} craked it over for a good 15 to 2o seconds before it smoked into life. When the previously fitted faulty glow plugs were replaced and the fuel pump replaced it starts first touch. with a rattle.

I started to look at a replacement engine if this is going to so expensive having just spent £1300

Thanks a lot for you help


Clive

PS the mechanic could not have been more helpfull especially over the smokey starting problem
Click to expand...
 
The £1300 was for new fuel pump glow plugs and a load of bits that had to be done, lamp for the Aircon control Hevac, rear washer pump, change over left hooker head lights, window regulator passenger door mirror.
This is an independent Land Rover garage.
This timing chain job sounds a huge job 1400-2000 or more is the garages view I do not want to take on hassle but would like to resolve this rattle perhaps finding some body that could do the work.
 
I am that hacked off I have started looking for a cheap DHSE although I must admit I love this Rangy I am addicted to them and would love to see it working with out the rattles,
 
stingclive33 said:
The £1300 was for new fuel pump glow plugs and a load of bits that had to be done, lamp for the Aircon control Hevac, rear washer pump, change over left hooker head lights, window regulator passenger door mirror.
This is an independent Land Rover garage.
This timing chain job sounds a huge job 1400-2000 or more is the garages view I do not want to take on hassle but would like to resolve this rattle perhaps finding some body that could do the work.
Click to expand...

I can't see how a timing chain can rattle unless its not under tension or there is something wrong with the timing, didn't before shouldn't now.
I would expect the garage to do the decent thing and at least try to fix the noise, for free.

You have also asked for help, where do you live, Timbuktu?

Oh and "Name n Shame" the garage.
 
I live in East Sussex near Rye, I am no mechanic and the garage have tried to resolve the problem and always respond straight away to the problems that have occurred. The Garage is Terrain Vehicles.
 
If it wasn't rattling before you let them work on it, and it was when the handed it back to, it's simple tell them to fix the problem THEY have created! don't pay them! a decent garage wouldn't hand it back like that anyhow.

stingclive33 said:
I live in East Sussex near Rye, I am no mechanic and the garage have tried to resolve the problem and always respond straight away to the problems that have occurred. The Garage is Terrain Vehicles.
Click to expand...
 
They would like to fix the problem but will require £1400 - £2000 to do it and still then will not say that this will be the 100% fix.

If I am honest I want out now and would like to find somebody who would say this is your problem and this is the solution for this price. I do really like the car
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Range Rover sport SDV6 NOT STARTING!
Replies
3
Views
1K
AllanWorms
AllanWorms
J
1996 Defender 90 300 tdi - Houston we have lift-off - Oh Dear No We Don't :( 'Lift Out'
Replies
10
Views
1K
v8250
v8250
J
P38 2.5 dhse - strange starting issue only every 3 starts
2
Replies
29
Views
3K
Datatek
Datatek
S
[Newbie]: TD5 starting problems
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
sfinnie
S
H
P38A 1997 2.5 cranks dont start
Replies
6
Views
2K
Datatek
Datatek