martin1512 said:
May be a silly question, but why remove the 4wd system on a car, whose only advantage over any other estate car IS the 4wd system? If you don't need a 4x4 or want the running costs why buy one?:confused::confused:
Click to expand...

+1


and it dunt make it use less fuel or have any advantage at all (well your VCU can't destroy the IRD or diff, but that's about it)

I know i've run mine without when my VCU destroyed my IRD :( but I put it straight back and it drives much much better
 
I aggree, if you want better economy buy a volvo estate or something, just as much space and still very capable.
 
OK then - I give up.

I admit that 4X4 is not necessary.

Only two things need to be resolved -

1. How can I ensure that I can make all my journeys on dead straight roads - on nice dry days - with the temp above freezing.

2. Where can I get Formula One type brakes to stop the Freelander nearly instantly as I no longer want to swerve out of the way of danger or to avoid a kid who runs into the road.

Seriously - having 2X4 in a vehicle designed for 4X4 takes away most of the safety margin.

The folks who think 4X4 is for off-road only or for snow / winter conditions have not found themselves in a dangerous situation - yet!

I try to drive defensively and I hope safely - ready to take avoiding action when I encounter a hazard.

I need 4X4 - every day.

Stay safe.

S.
 
If you want MPG get a VW Diesel,,

If you want 4x4 then stay and learn about what you have brought,
I knew nothing about diesel or 4x4,,
so this has been a steep learning curve,
but I am really enjoying the experiance..

And so should you..
 
martin1512 said:
May be a silly question, but why remove the 4wd system on a car, whose only advantage over any other estate car IS the 4wd system? If you don't need a 4x4 or want the running costs why buy one?:confused::confused:
Click to expand...
Well, you might just fancy one and fortunately we have almost infinite choice. I dont need a 4x4 (or 2x2) but its my preference. Would I prefer lower running costs - of course!
 
Singvogel said:
OK then - I give up.

I admit that 4X4 is not necessary.

Only two things need to be resolved -

1. How can I ensure that I can make all my journeys on dead straight roads - on nice dry days - with the temp above freezing.

2. Where can I get Formula One type brakes to stop the Freelander nearly instantly as I no longer want to swerve out of the way of danger or to avoid a kid who runs into the road.

Seriously - having 2X4 in a vehicle designed for 4X4 takes away most of the safety margin.

The folks who think 4X4 is for off-road only or for snow / winter conditions have not found themselves in a dangerous situation - yet!

I try to drive defensively and I hope safely - ready to take avoiding action when I encounter a hazard.

I need 4X4 - every day.

Stay safe.

S.
Click to expand...

Well said and good for you! You have more exciting journrys than me! :)
 
you can buy them very cheap without the prop on, so its cheaper than buying another kind of car, i was not even looking for one till my mate offered me his, 500pds and he taxed it me for 6 months,
 
no1birdman said:
you can buy them very cheap without the prop on, so its cheaper than buying another kind of car, i was not even looking for one till my mate offered me his, 500pds and he taxed it me for 6 months,
Click to expand...

Yes - that's a good point.

I'd overlooked that.

That explains a lot of course.

As long as folks are aware of it's roadholding and manoueverability limitiations there should be no real problem then.

S.
 
I bought mine as a replacement for the Rav4 I had, as I saw the benefits of 4x4 in the snow and its cornering abilities too. Since having my FL, the prop had to be removed as a precaution, and since having the IRD and 'box off twice, the amount of debris in the IRD oil convinced me to leave the prop off for now, as it looks like I'm saving for not only a recon VCU, but a recon IRD too....... hey ho, it's still a lovely, powerful car to drive, and I have had no adverse driving situations since having the prop removed, it still corners well, drives in a straight line well, and accelerates / brakes well too. So until I can afford it, it'll do just fine :)
 
Singvogel said:
As long as folks are aware of it's roadholding and manoueverability limitiations there should be no real problem then.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of it and it still bites me in the arse. I'm not even going to consider driving it in winter if I haven't got the new tyres and VCU - if you are ok with it then that's fine but I don't feel safe at all.
 
Singvogel said:
OK then - I give up.

I admit that 4X4 is not necessary.

Only two things need to be resolved -

1.w can I ensure that I can make all my journeys on dead straight roads - on nice dry days - with the temp above freezing.

2. Where can I get Formula One type brakes to stop the Freelander nearly instantly as I no longer want to swerve out of the way of danger or to avoid a kid who runs into the road.

Seriously - having 2X4 in a vehicle designed for 4X4 takes away most of the safety margin.

The folks who think 4X4 is for off-road only or for snow / winter conditions have not found themselves in a dangerous situation - yet!

I try to drive defensively and I hope safely - ready to take avoiding action when I encounter a hazard.

I need 4X4 - every day.

Stay safe.

S.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with you on some of your post. I don't agree that the Freelander was designed as a 4X4 as it wasn't. It's was based on the FWD Austin Maestro floor pan to the point where the front suspension is the same design. As you know the Freelander is a FWD car unit the front wheels slip a preset amount before power is fed to the rear. It's a mechanical system so can be considered passive. I agree that a Modern 4X4 with active ESP would be safer in all bad weather conditions if it all goes wrong, but these systems shouldn't be relied on as a way to us out of trouble because we are going to fast for the prevailing weather conditions. I do use my Freelander in FWD mode all summer as i'm a tight arse because it saves the VCU and tyres when there really is no need for the extra traction. Winter I fit the props just in case we get snow or ice, if it rains I would simply drive slower rather than hope the 4WD is going to keep me out of trouble!!
 
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Nodge68 said:
Whilst I agree with you on some of your post. I don't agree that the Freelander was designed as a 4X4 as it wasn't. It's was based on the FWD Austin Maestro floor pan to the point where the front suspension is the same design. As you know the Freelander is a FWD car unit the front wheels slip a preset amount before power is fed to the rear. It's a mechanical system so can be considered passive. I agree that a Modern 4X4 with active ESP would be safer in all bad weather conditions if it all goes wrong, but these systems shouldn't be relied on as a way to us out of trouble because we are going to fast for the prevailing weather conditions. I do use my Freelander in FWD mode all summer as i'm a tight arse because it saves the VCU and tyres when there really is no need for the extra traction. Winter I fit the props just in case we get snow or ice, if it rains I would simply drive slower.
Click to expand...
You are wrong on a couple of points. Whilst it is true that when the original Freelander concept, called CB40 in the early 1990's, was designed, it was designed around the Maestro. However, when the Freelander went into production in 1997, Land Rover was owned by BMW, who scrapped the CB40 design and built the Freelander as a completely new vehicle from the ground up. Which happens to be first time that Land Rover, had done this since the Series I. Secondly, the 4wd system on the Freelander is based on the Borg Warner unit used in the Range Rover Classic, albeit with an IRD unit rather than a transfer box. This was necessary due to the engine being mounted transversely in the Freelander, rather than the Range Rovers longitudinal engine layout. When BMW/Land Rover put the Freelander into production, it bore little or no resemblance to the original CB40 concept and was designed from the outset as a 4X4 crossover. It is actually very similar to the Honda FRV.
 
Nodge68 said:
Whilst I agree with you on some of your post. I don't agree that the Freelander was designed as a 4X4 as it wasn't. It's was based on the FWD Austin Maestro
Click to expand...

Afraid we must agree to differ Nodge.

From what I understand Project CB40 was conceived as a small 4X4 Rover/LandRover idea and only due to budget constraints did they use the Maestro Van as a 'test-bed'.

We'll probably never know the whole story as it's lost in the mists of time - and the Honda to BMW changeover when CB40 got the real financial go-ahead from Munich.

Anyhow I take your point.

Here's a nice pic of the original Maestro/Freelander in Question.

Singvogel.
 

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    Project CB-40.jpg
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martin1512 said:
You are wrong on a couple of points. Whilst it is true that when the original Freelander concept, called CB40 in the early 1990's, was designed, it was designed around the Maestro. However, when the Freelander went into production in 1997, Land Rover was owned by BMW, who scrapped the CB40 design and built the Freelander as a completely new vehicle from the ground up. Which happens to be first time that Land Rover, had done this since the Series I. Secondly, the 4wd system on the Freelander is based on the Borg Warner unit used in the Range Rover Classic, albeit with an IRD unit rather than a transfer box. This was necessary due to the engine being mounted transversely in the Freelander, rather than the Range Rovers longitudinal engine layout. When BMW/Land Rover put the Freelander into production, it bore little or no resemblance to the original CB40 concept and was designed from the outset as a 4X4 crossover. It is actually very similar to the Honda FRV.
Click to expand...

Thank you for educating me ;) Although the front wishbones are identical to those fitted to the meastro!! So we have got BMW to thank for the Freelanders shortcomings then? That makes me smile :)
 
Singvogel said:
Afraid we must agree to differ Nodge.

From what I understand Project CB40 was conceived as a small 4X4 Rover/LandRover idea and only due to budget constraints did they use the Maestro Van as a 'test-bed'.

We'll probably never know the whole story as it's lost in the mists of time - and the Honda to BMW changeover when CB40 got the real financial go-ahead from Munich.

Anyhow I take your point.

Here's a nice pic of the original Maestro/Freelander in Question.

Singvogel.
Click to expand...

Yes it seems i'v been thinking all these years that the Freelander was an old rehashed meastro when it was a BMW X3 instead!! Thank god it's better off road than the BMW :)
 
Singvogel said:
Afraid we must agree to differ Nodge.

From what I understand Project CB40 was conceived as a small 4X4 Rover/LandRover idea and only due to budget constraints did they use the Maestro Van as a 'test-bed'.

We'll probably never know the whole story as it's lost in the mists of time - and the Honda to BMW changeover when CB40 got the real financial go-ahead from Munich.

Anyhow I take your point.

Here's a nice pic of the original Maestro/Freelander in Question.

Singvogel.
Click to expand...

Interesting pic - is this for real?
 
DD3 said:
Interesting pic - is this for real?
Click to expand...

Yup - it's for real - it often turns up at Landy shows - but doesn't usually get that much attention.

A piece of history it is - in the Dunsfold collection - Gaydon doesn't have one.

AFAIK some 25 of these 'vans' were built for testing and all bar three were destroyed.

Don't know where the other 2 are though.

Here's some more info and more pics.

The CB40 Project

http://www.dunsfoldcollection.co.uk/gallery.php

Enjoy.

Singvogel. :cool:
 
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