mick 1986

Well-Known Member
Morning,

I have been doing some research into a 200tdi FIP problem, or suspected problem, I have.

Yesterday, the defender failed to start first time, but I put it down to heater plugs not being on long enough. Left the plugs on longer and it fired straigh up, but was lumpy and chucking white smoke out. Gave it a little Rev and it cleared up.

This morning, I had new fuel and air filters from when I bought the car a few months ago, so I decided to fit them, assuming one may have been old. The fuel spiller out the bleed screw/bolt on top of the fuel filter housing with little to no effort. Assuming the filter was full, I nipped up the bleed screw and it fired up, lumpy, but cleared with a small touch of throttle. It was ticking over a treat and smooth. We then set off to a bit of green laning, but got 1/4 mile up the road and the LR died. The revs dropped, no response to throttle, nothing. Turned it off and it fired back up and was fine again for another 1/4 mile or so (now heading home as I knew something was wrong, but driving in a loop to avoid the main roads). Got to the bottom of the hill to head home, and it died again. Struggled to start, almost died when throttle applied, and lumpy tick over.

I checked for fuel at the filter by cracking off the unions. Both unions had fuel under pressure, so I assumed the lift pump and filter were both good. I then checked at the Union on the FIP, again fuel pressure there. I then moved to the injectors. At this point fuel was dribbling out of the unions, not enough to make me say the FIP was working as it shoul, it was literally a drip. This was the same for all injectors, at this point the engine was still ticking over. It then ran more and more lumpy, until it cut out.

My question is, in your opinion, is it the FIP at fault, or the FIP timing? Any help is greatly appreciated as it won't even restart now.
 
it sounds like there is air getting in the system. IME, FIP's are reasonably consistent - if they fail, they fail and stay failed....
 
I'm not saying air isn't getting into the system, but why wouldn't any fuel be coming from the injector pipe? Surely if air was getting in, then a certain amount of fuel would reach the injectors?
 
Assuming its you that has let the air in, as it were, rather than a failure in an old ferrous fitting which has rotted, then undoing the injector pipe unions a little, in turn is one way... BUT, you need to be very careful - injection pressures are huge, and if you get in the way, you will need surgery !! - the injector unions should only need a slight "crack" to release the air, if any. The Bosch pumps are incredibly tolerant of air, and essentially self bleeding, provided the fuel to the pump is air free....
A good "trick" is to put a piece of clear pipe in the fuel feed to the pump, which will show any air in the fuel flow.
 
I'm not saying air isn't getting into the system, but why wouldn't any fuel be coming from the injector pipe? Surely if air was getting in, then a certain amount of fuel would reach the injectors?
The system could be air locked due to too much air in the fuel - it will self bleed if the fuel is air free... so if it doesn't, and you have no air showing in the clear pipe mentioned in my previous post, then you could indeed have a FIP issue.
What mileage has the pump done - had any previous work? ( like the front seal ? )
 
Assuming its you that has let the air in, as it were, rather than a failure in an old ferrous fitting which has rotted, then undoing the injector pipe unions a little, in turn is one way... BUT, you need to be very careful - injection pressures are huge, and if you get in the way, you will need surgery !! - the injector unions should only need a slight "crack" to release the air, if any. The Bosch pumps are incredibly tolerant of air, and essentially self bleeding, provided the fuel to the pump is air free....
A good "trick" is to put a piece of clear pipe in the fuel feed to the pump, which will show any air in the fuel flow.

That's what I was assuming. If the FIP is working, even at 50% efficiency, then more than a drip should come from the injector pipe. The fuel pressure entering the FIP, from the fuel filter, is under huge pressure. That's what makes me think it's the FIP at fault. If it was timing, surely some fuel would exit the injector pipe, just in the wrong order/sequence.

What should I try/start with?
 
The system could be air locked due to too much air in the fuel - it will self bleed if the fuel is air free... so if it doesn't, and you have no air showing in the clear pipe mentioned in my previous post, then you could indeed have a FIP issue.
What mileage has the pump done - had any previous work? ( like the front seal ? )

The defender has 141K on it. I don't know of any pervious work.
 
I think I would be looking at putting a clear pipe in the fuel supply from the tank - somewhere where you can see it easily.....

141K should not be a problem for the FIP, but since we have no knowledge of its history, its hard to say.

I still think air is the issue - but, of course, I am not there !!
 
I think I would be looking at putting a clear pipe in the fuel supply from the tank - somewhere where you can see it easily.....

141K should not be a problem for the FIP, but since we have no knowledge of its history, its hard to say.

I still think air is the issue - but, of course, I am not there !!
Where would you advise the pipe to be? Somewhere before the lift pump? Any ideas what pipe is best to use?
 
I would suggest making an extension to the pipe to the lift pump, so that you disconnect the lift pump pipe, and insert your "special" pipe - which after testing, you can just disconnect....( re connecting the 'fenders original pipe )
If you make this clear pipe a decent length, like half a meter, then it can be at the side of the engine for testing purposes, and you should be able to see the fuel flow quite clearly.

Given you are only using it for testing - IMHO, any clear fuel tolerant pipe will do. depends what you get your hands on..... nylon re-inforced, or silicon...
 
I have some nylon reinforced, but it's something like 10mm ID. I don't have any connectors to break in and seal everything once it's done.
 
I have some nylon reinforced, but it's something like 10mm ID. I don't have any connectors to break in and seal everything once it's done.

if the olives will come off the plastic hose - you could possibly use hose clips ("jubilee") to connect the nylon to the lift pump and to the original 9mm ish plastic - might be worth a try - but you might just create more air leaks!! :mad:
 
if the olives will come off the plastic hose - you could possibly use hose clips ("jubilee") to connect the nylon to the lift pump and to the original 9mm ish plastic - might be worth a try - but you might just create more air leaks!! :mad:

That's my concern. If it is air, I don't want to make anything worse by introducing more.

Where is the sedimenter, and what does it look like?
 
That's my concern. If it is air, I don't want to make anything worse by introducing more.

Where is the sedimenter, and what does it look like?

Anyone local who might have the unions - I have them, but....er... bit far really !!

No idea where your sedimenter will be if it has one - if your fuel tank is under the seat it probably doesn't have one (apparently - from a search ?) but then the fuel pipe will be short, and you could consider replacing the full length will the nylon and some clips...maybe.. even if only to test it...
 
defender sedimenter looks like this:-

About £31 on the bay of fleas..... item 221964369324

EDIT:- tried to post a piccie, but "uploads are not available" !!!!!!:rolleyes:
 

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