andycudworth

andycudworth

New Member
Hi everyone. New to posting on here but I can't seem to find an answer to my question. Here goes.....I've recently bought a D2 GS Manual 2003 with an Alive Tuning Stage 2 already fitted, inc EGR bypass. I'm getting poor starting when the engine is cold. Turn the key (even when glow plug light gone out) and it really struggles to fire and needs the keys turned for a few seconds to fire her. Then theres no revs when accelerator depress but produces lots of white smoke (unburnt fuel, not vapour). Eventually she comes to life, after much more white smoke and coughing, like she's missing. Eventually after what must be at least 30 seconds to a minute she will run normally. Things done, injector seals, checked injectors on diagnostics all fine, cylinder balance fine, glow plugs replaced, FPR replaced as was leaking, fuel pump replaced, injector harness, MAF is working and genuine, coolant temp sensor replaced, wastegate free, turbo fine, battery changed and charging fine, hoses all fine, wastegate actuator replaced. Fuel and air filters replaced. No fuel leaks found. I've used all genuine parts. Now I've read about these exact symptoms before but never seem to find an answer, I know there could be more than one cause, but seem to have tried almost everything. Next thing is to check the sensors in the air box and the inlet manifold, although they have both been cleaned. I suppose they could still be duff, even though I've cleaned them. Really want to turn this Disco around but losing faith now....! The smoke is embarrassing and it flattened the old battery very quickly with the poor starting.
 
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Welcome sounds pretty rough have you had the head pressure checked? As they are common in td5s :(
 
I've not, but I've discounted a cracked head as no fuel in oil etc. It does go like stink when it's warmed up, due to the remap etc.
 
cracked head doesnt always show with fuel in the oil, it can crack on the exhaust side, pressurizing the coolant system
 
andycudworth said:
Things done, injector seals, checked injectors on diagnostics all fine, cylinder balance fine*, glow plugs replaced, FPR replaced as was leaking, fuel pump replaced, injector harness, MAF is working* and genuine, coolant temp sensor replaced, wastegate free, turbo fine, battery changed and charging fine, hoses all fine, wastegate actuator replaced. Fuel and air filters replaced. Next thing is to check the sensors in the air box and the inlet manifold, although they have both been cleaned. I suppose they could still be duff, even though I've cleaned them. Really want to turn this Disco around but losing faith now....! The smoke is embarrassing and it flattened the old battery very quickly with the poor starting.
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Hi, you didnt try everything believe me, about ** as you are certain the cylinder balance and MAF are ok it means a tester was plugged in(otherwise you can't know for sure)... wasnt' there any fault code stored...also didnt you check live data?..cos that's the most important, live data while running cos even if you replaced those sensors there could be a wiring issue and the ECU doesnt get the signal from them

the AAP sensor(in the airbox) would produce black smoke not white, and the MAP/IAT sensor(in the inlet) doesnt affect cold starting much it affects power under load, what might cause your symptoms are:

-crank sensor
-fuel temp sensor

also the fact that you replaced the glow plugs doesn mean they work...did you check if they actually get feed when you turn ignition on? maybe the relay doesnt work or the fuse is blown(the glowplug light will come on even if you disconnect them all or remove the relay, it's managed directly by the ECU)...the best is to measure directly on the output, there is a thicker yellow/brown wire in the front of the fusebox near the two main leads, check for voltage on it when you turn ignition on first time to rule this out too

let's hope you are not unlucky enough to have some compression problem, i hope the timing is ok aswell ...if the tester didnt give you any fault code the most obvious is that it's something uncovered by diagnostics... and that's bad...do somehow and read the compression just to rule it out...here are the causes of white smoke on start-up:
White smoke during start up can be due to the following causes:
Burnt glow plugs
Incorrect Ignition timing
Compression problems - If a cylinder has significantly lower compression pressure than others. Minimum compression pressure should be 275 psi at cranking speed.
Blown Head Gasket
Poorly sealed piston rings
Leaky valves
Cracked Head
Cracked Block
Injector is stuck or not working
Clogged air filter
Defective waste gate such as an actuator, vacuum line etc.
Poor fuel quality
Low coolant temperature
The major cause of white smoke is inadequate heat. The low temperature at which fuel burns within the engine causes white smoke emissions and can be corrected easily by installing a low cost heating system.
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instead of spending all that money on bits and hoping one will cure the thing it would have been better to diagnose it properly from the beginning with live data and a compression test IMO


Good luck
 
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Hi and thank you for such a comprehensive reply. Make me wish I'd not asked haha.

I've not gone down the line of trying everything until I come across the cure. A lot of what's been done was by the previous keeper, who spent £800 on those things. I thought it will easy this to sort, not being afraid of a challenge..! Anyway I checked the obvious, such as filters etc. we swapped over the pump for a known working one because it was free and still the same. Then took it to a specialist, who put another pump in...! Still didn't work even though I said we had discounted that. They changed turbo actuator, but not that. They picked nothing on fault codes etc. then said they did live data and changed two injectors for two used ones that were tested and working. Then told me to pick it up saying it wasn't 100% but much better. However it ran real lumpy and next morning I found out they had put black to injectors in my 15P engine...! These are Landrover specialists....!!! Anyway I've had the injectors rectified, elsewhere. Won't ever be going back to the first so called specialist....!!!

So this is where I am now. I'm going to take it to Alive Tuning to get the live data fully checked out. I just feel like selling her, but I've got determined to find out exactly what's causing this and rectifying it. Unless it's a cracked head type issue...!
 
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id try another set of injector washers and seals, as the symptoms are classic faults when they fail or have been fitted poorly
 
The washers/seals were the first thing I did come to think about it. They were genuine ones but a local guy fitted them and although he does not have diagnostics he does belong to local Landy owners club and seems to know his stuff but I suppose you could be right...? That said the last owner had the seals done and I had them done again. Then I've just had two more seals done on injectors 1 and 2 because they are the ones the crap Landy specialist put black tops in my 15P engine..! I actually watched the two injectors replaced the other day and new seals fitted. Wish I'd had the others done again too...just in case :-/
 
andycudworth said:
The washers/seals were the first thing I did come to think about it. They were genuine ones but a local guy fitted them and although he does not have diagnostics he does belong to local Landy owners club and seems to know his stuff but I suppose you could be right...? That said the last owner had the seals done and I had them done again. Then I've just had two more seals done on injectors 1 and 2 because they are the ones the crap Landy specialist put black tops in my 15P engine..! I actually watched the two injectors replaced the other day and new seals fitted. Wish I'd had the others done again too...just in case :-/
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the injector seats have got to be spotlessly clean otherwise they wont seal properly, you need to get in and have a look down them with a torch to make sure, before refitting the injectors
 
in the engine bay fusebox, marked FL2 it's a fusible link 100A, what does it mean that you found the relay? that you are sure it's working or not? follow that thick yellow/black wire which goes from the fusebox to the glow plugs and check if there's voltage on it in the morning when you put ignition on pos 2(ask somebody to turn the ignition while you watch the voltmeter), or measure immediately after the engine started as when the engine is cold the glow plugs must be under power for a while cos they must be in the post-heat operation.
 
Update....fuse and relay to glow plugs checked and ok. Power to glow plugs fine. I've run it over to Alive Tuning who did the stage 2 tuning on it and its been run on live data diagnostics. Everything checked out fine. However the car does have some acceleration lag from low revs. This happens with MAF connected and unconnected. Gary at Alive stated that when fired up the rev counter was only at 200rpm for a second or two then crept up to normal idle speed. However when removing the drive belt the idle speed went straight up to normal 800ish rpm. Gary stated it indicated an electrical issue, namely alternator. Therefore I ran it to a local respected auto electricians specialising in starters and alternators and they said everything on started, alternator and battery were normal with no issues...! I'm thinking its getting to the time I put this one through the block to get my money back :-/
 
Right then. Having taken the Disco to a so called diesel specialist and run through everything with them the advice was stick it through the auction. I just can't bring myself to do it just yet, because it's not the actual engine that's at fault. The more digging I do, especially as things point towards an electrical issue, I am inclined to change the crank sensor and check the wiring there for contamination or worn wiring etc. Would faulty sensor or wiring to it also cause slightly lumpy running, especially late turbo boost at low revs..? Such as pulling out of junctions.
 
you said that there are no fault codes... for any sensor related wiring issue there should have been a fault code stored... also if the live data looks well(i wish i saw them) IMO rule out the other things first which are not covered by diagnostics: compression, fuel pressure, etc.... by the way if it wasnt changed in (let's say) the last 30k miles replace the depression controll valve,as it's only plastic/rubber it looses it's qualities in time due to exposure to hot crankase gasses and even if it opens/closes it's inaccurate and might create all kind of issues
 
andycudworth said:
Right then. Having taken the Disco to a so called diesel specialist and run through everything with them the advice was stick it through the auction. I just can't bring myself to do it just yet, because it's not the actual engine that's at fault. The more digging I do, especially as things point towards an electrical issue, I am inclined to change the crank sensor and check the wiring there for contamination or worn wiring etc. Would faulty sensor or wiring to it also cause slightly lumpy running, especially late turbo boost at low revs..? Such as pulling out of junctions.
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what was everything ,cam timing, fuel pressure ,compression test etc
 
No they didn't test anything. I just told them the history of the problem but they have suggestions at all. I'm just wanting to know if duff crank sensor or duff signal from it would give not only lumpy running, but some acceleration hesitation....?
 
then i say again... a duff crank sensor off course would give a duff signal, but it should let 'traces' in the ECU memory... i can't put it clearer than that... beside that, yes it could cause acceleration hesitation too as it's part of the addaptive strategy
 
Thanks for the reply. I understand what your saying however I've read that things can go wrong with such things without faults recorded. I may be wrong or just wisful thinking...! But right now I'd take a bit of wishful thinking to keep my faith.
 
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