I posted in this forum a few weeks ago saying my 2005 Freelander TD4 had developed an intermittent fault whereby it would judder as though it was going to stall and then would occasionally cut off.

It's become clear now that this mainly happens once the engine is warm and gets progressively worse until the engine will start, judder and then cut off every time, until it cools down and then it'll work again. When this happens the engine management light comes on then goes straight off but I've had it into a garage and nothing showed up on the diagnostics computer.

Following advice on here and elsewhere I've changed the fuel filter and fuel pump but this hasn't worked. Does anyone have any idea what else it could be because it's really starting to get me down now as no garage has a clue and I'm in a position whereby I can't trust it on journeys longer than 10 minutes

First what was the result of the fuel line to the injectors. Have you had and bumps or knocks underneath that might of damaged the fuel line from the tank to the engine. Next Electrical fault might say okay but computers only read a response, check wires relevant to starting and running the engine if damaged. If the fuel line has a hole check for leaks on the ground when switch on but don't turn the engine on and allow the pump purge. Check the return fuel line for blockage as that could act as back pressure preventing flow back to the tank cause the ccu and relay to have a hissy fit. You could narrow down the fuel line issue by bypassing using a gravity feed as for checking the return line you will need to disconnect the pipe to the tank and run the engine or the pump will work overtime. Hope this helps a bit hopefully a grown up will give a better solution.

Sounds like a problem I had on my Ford Galaxy, tuned out to be the strainer inside the fuel tank was blocked by slimy black stuff.
Is there a strainer in the Freelander tank? May be worth checking.

I stand to get shot down in flames here - but if the MIL comes on, there must be a code of some sort to read. The MIL is there primarily as a statutory requirement for monitoring the engine's emissions and warning if it is likely to be out of tolerance. The reason will be stored.

I suppose if the fault clears and the light goes out, the code may be removed. As yours is a 2005 car, you should be able to plug in one of those cheap ODBII bluetooth readers and check the fault on your phone - ie you can check it when the light comes on.

Some of the check engine lights are prone to disappearing very quickly if the car suspects it's a one off or an intermittent fault.

They self clear after 5-10 restarts so if you don't get a reader plugged in fast you can easily miss them.

You'll probably find it's something fuel pressure related - quite often it's either a sensor or the solenoid on the high pressure fuel pump on its way out - they tend to go in an annoying flaky manner at first.

It's just had a new fuel pump and filter. Would a fuel pressure issue only occur once the engine had warmed up and disappear sporadically whilst driving? Wouldn't that be present permanently?

Would a fuel pressure issue only occur once the engine had warmed up and disappear sporadically whilst driving? Wouldn't that be present permanently?

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are there no other symptoms when the juddering occurs ? .. like smokey exhaust / smell of diesel fuel

according to :
td4 engine faults :
http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/R75faults.htm
running issues once the engine has warmed up Might be a faulty injector
( have a read thru that page .. although it's mainly a rover car .. it's the same engine with one or two differences
( e.g. the turbo on the td4 is a variable vane type ..
thing about a 'common rail' diesel engine .. is that the injectors are fed fuel via 1 large high pressure tube
i.e. the fuel rail
if 1 injector has a fault to cause a loss of fuel pressure .. the remaining injectors can also feel the effect of fuel pressure loss ..
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you can imagine what might happen if injector internals .. or the nozzle ..
were to get contaminated by a buildup of gum / varnish / deposits ..
or subject to lack of lubrication .. or rust caused by water-in-fuel ..
( lubrication once being taken care of by sulphur in diesel fuel
( todays diesel fuel is low-sulphur content due to emissions
internal clearances are measured in microns

injector internals:


How Bosch Piezoelectric Diesel Injector Works:

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might not be a bad idea to inspect :
the fuel rail pressure sensor
the plug/socket must be clean .. free of corrosion ..
water ingress there is a common issue ..
working voltage is small .. from millivolts to 5 volts
using 'contralube 770' on the clean plug/socket pins will defeat corrosion forming
( http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/827/category/154 )

i'd use 'contralube' on all the engine sensor electrical plugs/sockets if possible
and including the earth points .. And the injector wiring plugs/sockets ..
any corrosion / dirt buildup will have a detrimental effect on how well the engine runs
bit of an achilles heel for the td4 .. as it depends on various sensor voltages to the ecu in order to work properly

in theory a warm engine Might loosen the pin-to-socket contact on some sensor connections
and the fuel-rail-sensor sits right at the end of the fuel rail ( passenger side ) .. mid / top of engine
easy to spot the long 'tube' that feed fuel to the injectors .. and the cable that runs from the sensor to the ecu box
given the working voltage to that particular sensor is so small .. anything that would inhibit the electrical current there
would cause major hiccups in the smooth running of the engine ..
be worth inspecting it - cleaning it - smearing 'contralube' on the connector pins ..
and outside the plug where the wires enter the moulding .. i.e. to prevent Any chance of water ingress ..
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as for water ingress .. after a rain downpour .. vehicle parked up ..
you Might notice a pool of water around the oil filler cap
if anything that shows rain water does get into the engine bay
( i drilled 3 small holes on the offside of the oil-filler-cap 'dish' to let water drain away
( would not want water entering the oil sump should the oil filler cap seal be less than perfect
~~~~
there are 2 temperature sensors on the td4 .. both are electrical thermo resistor type
( i.e. electrical resistance changes according to the temperature )
one be the coolant temp sensor ..
the other be the air-intake temp sensor ..
both have a 'say' as to how much fuel will be injected at any given time ..

then there is the 'maf' sensor .. that tells the ecu how much air is flowing into the engine air intake ..
that sensor can degenerate over time .. or fail completely ..
symptoms can be read about here:
about the 'maf' sensor
http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/R75maf.htm
IF the maf sensor is suspect .. it can be checked by disconnecting the sensor plug
if engine runs better .. then the maf likely to be at fault ..
( the ecu runs a default maf-map if its disconnected )
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modern piezo electric fuel injectors are very sensitive to build up of gum / varnish / dirt abrasion / lack of lubrication / water-in-fuel etc etc
so be worth ( imho ) using a good fuel additive like 'diesel rhino' ( available online)
or 'millers eco-max' ( available at halfords ) ..
d.r. besides cleaning and lubricating the fuel system .. will also combat water-in-fuel and 'diesel-bug'
( google diesel bug if you don't know what it is ..
( it's basicaly a bacteria that grows in diesel fuel under the right conditions .. forming a black-slime
( probably doesn't effect vehicles driven daily .. but could be a problem in storage tanks
( or a vehicle that's left standing unused for a long time

be sure to drain the fuel sedimenter once a year .. just let the fuel run out a bit into a container
untill it runs clear .. no sediment or water ..
~~~~~~
if your td4 has an egr valve .. maybe get that checked out ..
remove it and clean it .. check that it isn't sticking ..
many owners get rid of it altogether .. installing an egr-delete ( or egr 'bypass' ) instead
one less thing to go wrong .. easy to do as a d.i.y. job
engine runs better .. mpg improves ..
IF it does stick .. in theory it could cause the engine to have 'stall' symptoms
( google 'faulty egr symptoms' to check that out ..
( not 100% sure if it causes the engine light to come on .. or not ..
that valve is subject to exhaust gases and some oil mist from the turbo ..
over time .. the result is a baked on oily sticky mess
see:
http://tuning-diesels.com/75Zt/R75serv.htm#SS
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check that the turbo actuating system is working properly .. including the 'map' sensor itself
although i don't think that would cause the symptoms you describe ..
the vanes usually stick either open or closed ..
resulting in 'overboost' in which case the engine limits the power to protect itself
or 'underboost' .. probably loss or power under load ..
if the 'map' sensor ( or its wiring connector ) be faulty .. not sure exactly what the symptoms be
but the ecu wouldn't know how much air pressure be in the air intake manifold ..
it Might use a default setting
( trying to think what might occur if the wiring there were to break and re-connect randomly .. as in a weak wiring connection )
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worth researching how the engine actually works .. and the symptoms if something goes wrong
so .. you don't get taken-to-the-cleaners by a possible unscrupulous mechanic ..
( e.g. a 'loud bang and loads of black smoke' could easily be an intercooler hose blowing of it's connecting pipe
( due to a loose clip .. .. could also be a turbo failing ..
( replacement turbo .. lots of ££ .. .. fixing or replacing an intercooler hose .. peanuts compared to the turbo replacement ..
and btw: best to let the turbo cool down by letting the oil circulate through its bearings Before shutting off the engine
( LR recommend at least 10 seconds ) .. i.e. let the engine idle a bit before shutting it down ..

( http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-practice-idling-rule-turbo-charged-cars.html

and to make sure the turbo always gets its oil supply ..
make sure the crankcase vent system is maintained properly ..
( i.e. the crankcase-vent filter replaced at service time
( and the vent valve checked to make sure its working ok ..
best to replace the lr.bog roll filter setup .. with the bmw vortex separator unit
no filter to need replacing .. but internal vent valve should be checked / cleaned with white spirit periodically ..
( i think bmw suggest replacing it every 3 years
the crankcase vent system can be checked by removing the oil dipstick with the engine running
if oil pumps out the dipstick tube .. the crankcase vent is not doing its job
and if that is not working .. if left .. the turbo in time will fail due to oil starvation ..
( or more a case of oil leaking from the seals according to this:
( http://www.approvedturbo.com/wp-content/uploads/ATC-Oil-Leak-Troubleshooting.pdf

last few points added re earlier posts on your engine issue ..

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be a downloadable pdf file in this thread
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/td4-m47r-engine-pdf-file.288724/#post-3564507
more or less explains how the td4/m47r engine works
and shows the location of various sensors
also has some notes re sensor faults / operating parameters .. and the like
( info differs slightly to the td4 in that the td4 has a variable vane turbo
( and the low pressure fuel pump system setup is slightly different on later td4's
and on the LR td4 .. the air intake to the air filter differs from the rover75 ..

hd3.

Many thanks.
I only wish i knew a way to save or print off (if allowed) this excellent reply. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Cheers all.

MULDERKE said:

hd3.

Many thanks.
I only wish i knew a way to save or print off (if allowed) this excellent reply. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Cheers all.

Click to expand...

copy and paste into a word document......simples