Keith a nuclear attack submarine DID make a difference when doctor David Owen sent one and parked it outside Port Stanley harbour. Making it's presence in the area well known. They can move faster underwater than any Argie ship, one could have devastated any invasion fleet. I did not mention a nuclear strike. There is a slight difference between a nuclear powered attack submarine like the one that did the Belgrano and a bloody trident sub. One could have gotten there within a few days, she knew for months it was about to kick off. No excuses are possible. Other than the fact that she WANTED them to invade so she could be the bloody hero freeing the islands from oppression. Get real, she was a tyrannical cow, the nearest thing we have had to a dictator since Cromwell. Yes unions were a problem but her slap handed methods of dealing with them destroyed British industry for ever. She wanted to rely on tourism and banking not industry to make Britain money. Look where that got us.

Really? that's why Nissan and Honda set up then. The banks went wild on the dynamic duo of Bliar and OESI's watch.
There are none as blind as them that do not want to see.
A nuclear sub is no defence against an airborn invasion.
 
Really? that's why Nissan and Honda set up then. The banks went wild on the dynamic duo of Bliar and OESI's watch.
There are none as blind as them that do not want to see.
A nuclear sub is no defence against an airborn invasion.

Don't talk bloody daft, Nissan and Honda set up here to avoid EU import duties for no other reason, so their cars are made in the EU and don't attract duty. The British car industry was destroyed partly by stupid unions and mostly by government backed confrontational management. Creating problems where none existed, goading just like with the bloody miners. She punished workers for supporting Labour if the truth be known. One of her comments in cabinet about Liverpool was "Leave them to rot" There was no airborne invasion it was amphibious.
 
Don't talk bloody daft, Nissan and Honda set up here to avoid EU import duties for no other reason, so their cars are made in the EU and don't attract duty. The British car industry was destroyed partly by stupid unions and mostly by government backed confrontational management. Creating problems where none existed, goading just like with the bloody miners. She punished workers for supporting Labour if the truth be known. One of her comments in cabinet about Liverpool was "Leave them to rot" There was no airborne invasion it was amphibious.
If the conditions had been right, Nissan and Honda and others would have set up in France or Germany, that would also have given them the same access to the EU, they didn't because Thatcher had sorted the union problems.
Management were largely supine, it was the unions that were always seeking confrontation with the stated intention of achieving a marxist state in the UK.
I did not say there was an airborn invasion, you really must learn to read what is written, I said a sub would not be effective against an airborne invasion. If your sub had been down there Galtieri would, as like as not, gone about things differently, it turns out that he had backed himself into a corner.
A nuclear sub really only has a few torpedoes and Trident nuclear missiles, on it's own it would have achieved nothing.
The Argies have been rumbling about the Malvenas for years but had never really taken any serious action, why would anyone have thought they would take action this time? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
So it's ok to go in like a herd of cattle and crush people if you are in a hurry to see the game. Yes the police opened the gates maybe the wrong thing to do. But they did not ask the supporters to behave like bloody animals. Lots of people behaved in an inappropriate manner that day. But one of the biggest contributors was the stupid fences around the pitch. The idiot that thought that one up has a lot to answer for. Lots of contributing factors. But for the supporters representatives to be solidly blaming the police and not being willing to take part of the blame is just stupidity. Is the thirst for compensation and driving force i wonder?
YES you got it in one, supporters were treated like cattle, herded and fenced in. Those at the back did not know what was happening at the front. Its the cover-up by Maggies army that upsets most people, families want TRUTH not compensation. Those who twisted the facts and manipulated the truth need to be named and shamed, not retire with a knighthood and a fat pension
 
I see on the news tonight that there is a criminal investigation into the police involved in Hillsborough, not the fans. Long overdue ! latest update its a manslaughter investigation
 
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I see on the news tonight that there is a criminal investigation into the police involved in Hillsborough, not the fans. Long overdue ! latest update its a manslaughter investigation

So it was nothing to do with the fans then? Just the police totally to blame, it was apparently hundreds of police dressed as fans that rushed in and caused the barriers to collapse crushing the people at the front. That is a new slant on the occurrence i had not thought of.
 
So it was nothing to do with the fans then? Just the police totally to blame, it was apparently hundreds of police dressed as fans that rushed in and caused the barriers to collapse crushing the people at the front. That is a new slant on the occurrence i had not thought of.
Don't put words into my mouth, where in my posts have I said that only the police where to blame. The police where to blame for the lies, cover up and perjury to the coroners court as has been proved.
 
Don't put words into my mouth, where in my posts have I said that only the police where to blame. The police where to blame for the lies, cover up and perjury to the coroners court as has been proved.

Think there was a lot went on to be honest and a lot of mistakes made. Opening the gates was a mistake (one mans mistake) and would never happen now, the match would be delayed these days if there was crown congestion. Expecting the fans to go on in an orderly manner was a little naive. But did they have to go on like a herd of cattle? Having fences around the pitch was a serious factor as it turned out. That is why they have now all been removed. Lesson have been learned, though it is tragic that so many had to die in order to change things. Don't know why the police would alter statements. Only thing i have seen of it is TV coverage, i was not there. Were you?
 
If the conditions had been right, Nissan and Honda and others would have set up in France or Germany, that would also have given them the same access to the EU, they didn't because Thatcher had sorted the union problems.
Management were largely supine, it was the unions that were always seeking confrontation with the stated intention of achieving a marxist state in the UK.
I did not say there was an airborn invasion, you really must learn to read what is written, I said a sub would not be effective against an airborne invasion. If your sub had been down there Galtieri would, as like as not, gone about things differently, it turns out that he had backed himself into a corner.
A nuclear sub really only has a few torpedoes and Trident nuclear missiles, on it's own it would have achieved nothing.
The Argies have been rumbling about the Malvenas for years but had never really taken any serious action, why would anyone have thought they would take action this time? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Honda and Nissan were bribed to come here by the government with tax concessions. Another factor being long dole queues of skilled workers created by darling Maggie. Get bloody real Keith. It is pretty obvious that a sub could do little about an airborne invasion and as there was no airborne invasion why mention it? I will repeat again the British government KNEW about the invasion plans for months in advance and did NOTHING other than deploy marines on every piece of available rock to ensure any incursion was classed in international law as armed invasion. They then ordered the Endurance out of the area. The Endurance had been monitoring Argie radio traffic for months the captain radioed London to inform them of the Argie plans. Intelligence officers in Argentina gave the same information for months before the invasion. It is well documented. In many peoples view the invasion was invited and that is the impression the Argies got. What are NOT available are the cabinet papers from that time detailing the strategy employed. Although the thirty year rule passed long ago, they are still marked secret and will not be released. In my view those papers will be damning of an in the least case inept handling of the situation, or a calculated and carefully laid plan to create confrontation. The latter is the favorite scenario. Thatcher was VERY good at that.
 
nissan were not bribed wammers they just knew that us up north as good grafters who can do a good days work :D:D:D:D:D:D
 
nissan were not bribed wammers they just knew that us up north as good grafters who can do a good days work :D:D:D:D:D:D

Think you will find they were. Yes and good grafters, contrary to the Thatcherite concept of hard work, which is driving there in a Porsche and sitting at a desk all day. :D:D:D
 
Honda and Nissan were bribed to come here by the government with tax concessions. Another factor being long dole queues of skilled workers created by darling Maggie. Get bloody real Keith. It is pretty obvious that a sub could do little about an airborne invasion and as there was no airborne invasion why mention it? I will repeat again the British government KNEW about the invasion plans for months in advance and did NOTHING other than deploy marines on every piece of available rock to ensure any incursion was classed in international law as armed invasion. They then ordered the Endurance out of the area. The Endurance had been monitoring Argie radio traffic for months the captain radioed London to inform them of the Argie plans. Intelligence officers in Argentina gave the same information for months before the invasion. It is well documented. In many peoples view the invasion was invited and that is the impression the Argies got. What are NOT available are the cabinet papers from that time detailing the strategy employed. Although the thirty year rule passed long ago, they are still marked secret and will not be released. In my view those papers will be damning of an in the least case inept handling of the situation, or a calculated and carefully laid plan to create confrontation. The latter is the favorite scenario. Thatcher was VERY good at that.
I reckon you should get on to Cameron and tell him to get your Nuclear sub down to Gibralter as the Spanish are on about sovereignty there again, much like Galtieri was in the malvenas to deflect domestic opinion from home problems.:rolleyes:

You have swallowed all the left wing propaganda hook line and sinker.
 
I reckon you should get on to Cameron and tell him to get your Nuclear sub down to Gibralter as the Spanish are on about sovereignty there again, much like Galtieri was in the malvenas to deflect domestic opinion from home problems.:rolleyes:

You have swallowed all the left wing propaganda hook line and sinker.

labour had actual plans to give gibralta up with out telling the locals till it was too late ,bastards:mad:
 
Think there was a lot went on to be honest and a lot of mistakes made. Opening the gates was a mistake (one mans mistake) and would never happen now, the match would be delayed these days if there was crown congestion. Expecting the fans to go on in an orderly manner was a little naive. But did they have to go on like a herd of cattle? Having fences around the pitch was a serious factor as it turned out. That is why they have now all been removed. Lesson have been learned, though it is tragic that so many had to die in order to change things. Don't know why the police would alter statements. Only thing i have seen of it is TV coverage, i was not there. Were you?
Yes a lot of mistakes were made,if all you base your opinions on is the tv coverage then try Wikipedia/Hillsborough disaster for a more balanced report. Because of congestion outside the ground an EXIT gate was opened to allow fans into a tunnel leading to two already overcrowded standing pens. You with your engineering background must appreciate that a quart will not fit in a pint pot. No I was not there thank God as I was delayed at work but two close friends were and they gave evidence at the inquiry. You don't know why the police would alter their statements? How naïve,think Plebgate, if they can do that to a cabinet minister what chance do the rest of us stand. After 24 years perhaps we will get to the truth and some closure for the families
 
Really? that's why Nissan and Honda set up then. The banks went wild on the dynamic duo of Bliar and OESI's watch.
There are none as blind as them that do not want to see.
A nuclear sub is no defence against an airborn invasion.

There's one thing Thatcher did which undeniably messed things up. The de-regulation of the banks - so called 'Big Bang'. I think it was in '85 (?)
Birth of 'Loadsamony' and 'greed is good' attitudes. That, in my view, was one of the other significant poisonous legacies of Thatcherism.:(
 
I reckon you should get on to Cameron and tell him to get your Nuclear sub down to Gibralter as the Spanish are on about sovereignty there again, much like Galtieri was in the malvenas to deflect domestic opinion from home problems.:rolleyes:

You have swallowed all the left wing propaganda hook line and sinker.

Keith the facts about the build up to the Falklands invasion are well known, not propaganda. The government knew about it long before it happened. It's what they did or more important did not do about it that raises questions. They either made a serious error of judgement ignoring the intelligence reports about preparations for it and the reports coming back from Endurance for several months, or decided to do a minimum and bring things to a head. There can be no other explanation. This is not a left V right thing just the facts of the situation. I have known people who were down there, if it had not been for a bit of good luck in the early stages when the fleet first arrived we could have been well and truly stuffed. Things could have turned out a lot different than they did. The cabinet papers not being released tells a big story here. What have they got to hide? Strange how you talk of left wing propaganda when lots on here accuse me of having right wing views. Truth is truth whichever colour of tie you wear.
 
There's one thing Thatcher did which undeniably messed things up. The de-regulation of the banks - so called 'Big Bang'. I think it was in '85 (?)
Birth of 'Loadsamony' and 'greed is good' attitudes. That, in my view, was one of the other significant poisonous legacies of Thatcherism.:(
That is absolutely true:) However it was I think an earlier government that abolished the Truck laws that allowed an emplyee to demand to be paid in cash for his/her labour, this gave the banks a captive market to exploit since it became nigh on impossible to exist without a bank account.:(
 
That is absolutely true:) However it was I think an earlier government that abolished the Truck laws that allowed an emplyee to demand to be paid in cash for his/her labour, this gave the banks a captive market to exploit since it became nigh on impossible to exist without a bank account.:(

Isn't that a bit topsy turvy Keith everybody was paid in cash at one time. I used to have to personally hand out pay packets to hundreds of people every Thursday morning. The pay clerk came with the wage packets called out a name then the packet was given to me to hand to the employee. That changed when BAE went onto cashless monthly salary in the late eighties early nineties. Only then did the employee have to have a bank account to pay his wage into. Or have i misinterpreted your meaning.
 

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