myfirstl322
Well-Known Member
YEAR..... ENGINE........GOOSE or GANDER? 
You'll be pleased to know that the timing chain tensioner is just a 3 minute job.......on das V8. ( 1 out of 10 )
You'll be pleased to know that the timing chain tensioner is just a 3 minute job.......on das V8. ( 1 out of 10 )
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gold rover
Well-Known Member
For me a 10 but that's cos I know nuffins
Many thanks.....I have read the Beisan procedure over and over and looks simple enough - just wanted real world experience from those who have done or may know someone who has done it.
I would have thought that I posted it with the prefix of L322 and I mentioned VANOS - that kinda narrows it down to, what, maybe, I don't know - just one engine and a 3 year build window! (The M62TUB44 V8 between 2002 and 2005)
And yes, the main chain tensioner should be simples, but what about the cam chain tensioners? Are they just as simple to re-sleeve and re-seal?
YEAR..... ENGINE........GOOSE or GANDER?
You'll be pleased to know that the timing chain tensioner is just a 3 minute job.......on das V8. ( 1 out of 10 )
I would have thought that I posted it with the prefix of L322 and I mentioned VANOS - that kinda narrows it down to, what, maybe, I don't know - just one engine and a 3 year build window! (The M62TUB44 V8 between 2002 and 2005)
And yes, the main chain tensioner should be simples, but what about the cam chain tensioners? Are they just as simple to re-sleeve and re-seal?
myfirstl322
Well-Known Member
On their own, cam tensioners are probably p!ss easy, 2 bolts and one thumb.
Yes, I knew which engine has the vanos, I was being twuntish, but your bright enough to know why I made a thing of it.....I think
Yes, I knew which engine has the vanos, I was being twuntish, but your bright enough to know why I made a thing of it.....I think
gold rover
Well-Known Member
@Saint.V8 is this the same job @holidaychicken did two or three years ago, involving Vanos/timing chain/cam chains or something different?
Oh I fully understood your motives my man.On their own, cam tensioners are probably p!ss easy, 2 bolts.
Yes, I knew which engine has the vanos, I was being twuntish, but your bright enough to know why I made a thing of it.....I think
Yes, to remove the cam tensioner it is two nuts and the cam tensioner lifts out, but how easy is it to remove the shoes and replace the inner piston seal? From what I have read, viewed and researched it is fairly simple, but forewarned is forearmed etc.
Tis the same - removing the VANOS units, reseal, replace....
myfirstl322
Well-Known Member
I must confess, I'd just of bought new, but if they can be resealed then all the betterer. (Cam tensioners)
HC has done the besian back flip I believe, not 100% sure it was a success though, last I seen was a thread about pulling the engine
HC has done the besian back flip I believe, not 100% sure it was a success though, last I seen was a thread about pulling the engine
gold rover
Well-Known Member
Something said it might be waaaayyyyy at the back of my head.
Addit: I think you and he have been the only ones crazy..... oops I mean brave enough, on here, to dig that deep into the L322 V8
Many thanks.....I have read the Beisan procedure over and over and looks simple enough - just wanted real world experience from those who have done or may know someone who has done it.
I would have thought that I posted it with the prefix of L322 and I mentioned VANOS - that kinda narrows it down to, what, maybe, I don't know - just one engine and a 3 year build window! (The M62TUB44 V8 between 2002 and 2005)
And yes, the main chain tensioner should be simples, but what about the cam chain tensioners? Are they just as simple to re-sleeve and re-seal?
Indeed, always good getting those extra little tips when doing something for the first time
see there’s plenty of u tube videos , but like everything , u don’t know if there 100% accurate
Look forward to some piccies plse, let us know when ur going to start as I will fill up my popcorn tub first
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
Hi Ant, I’m about to do them for either the third or fourth time so I have a fairly good idea. My engine is making a nasty noise which the only thing left to change is to rebuild the vanos units again and replace them. I recently took mine apart again and replaced the oil distribution units and took all 4 cams out and stripped all 32 HVAs. I bought a spare vanos unit and rebuilt that with the Beisan procedure to throw in my engine .
I also rigged up some dummy vanos solenoids to test the oil pressure going to the vanos units.
If my noise remains after I chuck in the vanos units then it’s heads off and engine out and maybe even a supercharger...
If you want to watch me fook mine first before you do yours you are welcome.
I also have the GAS locking tools which are great but your kit is also really easy to use, the GAS are better though. I have a modified crows foot 27 mm spanner and also a fan tool.
I also rigged up some dummy vanos solenoids to test the oil pressure going to the vanos units.
If my noise remains after I chuck in the vanos units then it’s heads off and engine out and maybe even a supercharger...
If you want to watch me fook mine first before you do yours you are welcome.
I also have the GAS locking tools which are great but your kit is also really easy to use, the GAS are better though. I have a modified crows foot 27 mm spanner and also a fan tool.
Cheers Andy, I have the ASTA M62 locking kit with the VANOS solenoid socket, VANOS Plate timing tool, chain tensioner block, Cam Tensioner Pins, Flywheel pins (both straight and bent), a Pair of Timing Plate positioning clamps, Cam locks etc.
I have read and re-read the Beisan procedure - and it looks straight forward enough but very hit and miss on if you fold the Teflon seal and either ruin it or get it right! Do you have the VANOS press tool from Beisan also?
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
I have the beisan press tool, the hardest part is the Teflon ring , feels horrible when it goes in but I am not sure it does an awful lot once the piston is inserted back in as long as you don’t break it, which I did the first time so order a spare. You can get the seals from the Uk now from a bmw specialist in Sussex but can’t remember the name at the moment and I also have a set of i6 ones to try.
The pick tools are also a big help
The pick tools are also a big help
Few comments. First for your overall question - I have done this several times and I am doing it now beacuse for some reason my timing moved. I think it may be the Vanos bolt on Bank 2, but when I have turned it with some force holding the cam with my ground down 27mm spanner it seemed tight. My timing wheel was not, but that would have thrown a code. My issue was no codes other than all of Bank 2 misfires - compression test showed 30 on the cylinders 5 and 6 (I never did 7 and 8). Leak down test after I removed the valve covers showed that all of my cylinders passed. Conclusion timing moved or rebuilt Vanos is bad. Will not know until I finish up.
So tricks here - make sure the holes in the cams are clean. Spray them repeatedly to get out all oil. Do the same for the cam Torx bolts for Vanos and exhaust sprocket. Debate is open whether to red Loctite them - I have not decided yet. Debate is open whether to increase the the torque on the Vanos Torx bolt. On the BMW forums people have had this problem even with new bolts. You have to decide on your own what to do - I know I did mine to spec and it moved. Now I am redoing it.
Cam blocks - make sure they are flat. If you don't have the holder to keep them flat use some clamps. Flat is best. Flat is best.
Make sure you do Bank 2 first - the instructions make this clear - but this is a reminder.
Now some timing blocks (for timing wheel) cause issues as the machining is off. The upper timing covers have a hole that serves this function. What I will do (first time I had this problem so I had to move the trigger wheel a tad) this time is use my old upper time cover rubber gaskest - trim off the lower corner tabs and dry fit this on to double check. If you leave the tab on it will require you to really push down on the upper timing covers - without the tab doing a dry fit should be easy. Just push down on top of cover until flush with head and then slightly tighten so it holds. Then double check your timing with the hole in the upper timing cover. Once you know you are good - then put the new gaskets on and follow the procedure. The upper timing covers need to be flush with the head. Look how they are currently sitting and replicate this. Better yet - if they are not perfectly flush - use that small built in hole to see where timing is set and maybe replicate??
Finally - The Beisan rebuild does not allows work. The plastic gap where the o-ring and teflon ring sit may be too far out of spec for the kit to work. On two of mine this was the case. I went through 6 teflon rings before I worked out the problem with Raj. Basically the problem is the gap is too wide and the teflon ring will not sit, when you push in the vanos piston it will force the teflon ring out and cut it.
I had this problem on two vanos units that came from the same car - the other four I have done I had no issue.
Good luck - just follow the instructions and look at RAVE - it is very good for this procedure.
So tricks here - make sure the holes in the cams are clean. Spray them repeatedly to get out all oil. Do the same for the cam Torx bolts for Vanos and exhaust sprocket. Debate is open whether to red Loctite them - I have not decided yet. Debate is open whether to increase the the torque on the Vanos Torx bolt. On the BMW forums people have had this problem even with new bolts. You have to decide on your own what to do - I know I did mine to spec and it moved. Now I am redoing it.
Cam blocks - make sure they are flat. If you don't have the holder to keep them flat use some clamps. Flat is best. Flat is best.
Make sure you do Bank 2 first - the instructions make this clear - but this is a reminder.
Now some timing blocks (for timing wheel) cause issues as the machining is off. The upper timing covers have a hole that serves this function. What I will do (first time I had this problem so I had to move the trigger wheel a tad) this time is use my old upper time cover rubber gaskest - trim off the lower corner tabs and dry fit this on to double check. If you leave the tab on it will require you to really push down on the upper timing covers - without the tab doing a dry fit should be easy. Just push down on top of cover until flush with head and then slightly tighten so it holds. Then double check your timing with the hole in the upper timing cover. Once you know you are good - then put the new gaskets on and follow the procedure. The upper timing covers need to be flush with the head. Look how they are currently sitting and replicate this. Better yet - if they are not perfectly flush - use that small built in hole to see where timing is set and maybe replicate??
Finally - The Beisan rebuild does not allows work. The plastic gap where the o-ring and teflon ring sit may be too far out of spec for the kit to work. On two of mine this was the case. I went through 6 teflon rings before I worked out the problem with Raj. Basically the problem is the gap is too wide and the teflon ring will not sit, when you push in the vanos piston it will force the teflon ring out and cut it.
I had this problem on two vanos units that came from the same car - the other four I have done I had no issue.
Good luck - just follow the instructions and look at RAVE - it is very good for this procedure.
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
I have read before of the timing moving which was due to cheap torx bits and although I am not sure why, the torx bit was twisting rather than applying the correct torque to the bolts and then the bolt came lose.
I am removing my vanos units again to swap or rebuild as although speaking to Raj at beisan he has given me good advice, i haven't been able to cure my rattle and warm idle knock even after replacing just about everything north of the block. I am only left with serious internal problems after that from what i can see.
When you say do bank 2 first, are you talking about the locking blocks as i start with bank 1, although i don't think it matters, or tightening the vanos units where you start with bank 2 to remove the slack from the chain ?
The method i use which works for me to push down the upper timing chain covers is the beisan procedure by using two of the bolt sealing washers to temporarily fit the cam covers and push down the timing chain cover.
This site also helped me
http://www.germanautosolutions.com/...62_m62tu_cam_tools/m62_mstr_cam_tools_diy.php
I used a mix of youtube where the entire timing chain procedure can be found, beisan, GAS and Rave.
I am removing my vanos units again to swap or rebuild as although speaking to Raj at beisan he has given me good advice, i haven't been able to cure my rattle and warm idle knock even after replacing just about everything north of the block. I am only left with serious internal problems after that from what i can see.
When you say do bank 2 first, are you talking about the locking blocks as i start with bank 1, although i don't think it matters, or tightening the vanos units where you start with bank 2 to remove the slack from the chain ?
The method i use which works for me to push down the upper timing chain covers is the beisan procedure by using two of the bolt sealing washers to temporarily fit the cam covers and push down the timing chain cover.
This site also helped me
http://www.germanautosolutions.com/...62_m62tu_cam_tools/m62_mstr_cam_tools_diy.php
I used a mix of youtube where the entire timing chain procedure can be found, beisan, GAS and Rave.
Responding to some of your points. First I switched from a 3/8" Torx 55 to an 1/2" Torx 55. Why - similar to what you are saying. My larger torque wrench is 1/2" so I usually run an adapter to 3/8" to fit my T55. Well wouldn't you know - the adapter twisted and snapped at about 110nm. So the theory of the twisting T55 has merit. Once I used the 1/2" T55 I had no issues - torqued right up and triple checked to make sure. I did not use Loctite as it starts to cure in 10 minutes - with the steps involved it would be tough to get to final torque spec in 10 minutes.
On the Vanos - I had a spare rebuild so I swapped out Bank 2. My Beisan kit rebuilds were noiser than I liked. What I did find while searching is an outfit in Poland that rebuilds the unit - and actually opens them up and replaces the o-ring that the Beisan process does not - Beisan torques the plastic to squish harder on the o-ring to get more life from it. It may be worth a look at this Polish solution - since you are in Europe shipping would be way easier. Look here and poke around until you find it - http://mehenker.com/en/.
As to your question about doing Bank 2 first - the instructions are clear to do this, but some people miss this step as it becomes so repetitive they miss this instruction. Bank 2 first so that when you get to Bank 1 the chain tensioner will take up the slack - keeping the chain properly tensioned throughout. So it is just a reminder.
I think I was not clear on the upper timing cover step I have added. I know my tools (Ebay specials) throw a code on Bank 2. Others on multiple forums have this same issue - theory is the tool castings are off. My friend that borrowed my timing tool set had the same issue. I told him to finalize with this approach - his code issue was solved. But this required removing a silicon downed valve cover. The worse part of the timing guide job is cleaning off sealant on the rear of the heads. What I had to do the first time was to to pull the valve cover and move the timing wheel slightly. To solve this problem my solution will be to use my inferior bank 2 tool for initial settting, not torquing to spec - just finger tight. From here I will use the built in alignment tool that the upper timing covers have - it is sealed by an allen key near the cam position sensor. When the allen bolt is removed - insertion of a correct sized tool (some use an allen key that just fits) will go right into the timing wheel hole when the blocks are still on. Just like the timing jig does.
Proper installation of the upper timing cover requires the process you mention which is work - not to mention the sealant. I use clamps and palm pressure to get the upper timing covers flush with the head. Just look at what it looks like before you begin and replicate.
Back to the timing and faulty tools. What I am going to do has now changed. I will not use a gasket at all - I will put the Bank 2 upper timing cover on with a couple of bolts tight enough to hold position. It has to be aligned to the top of the head. By not using sealant or a gasket the process will only add a few minutes of work. Then I will use the built in opening and set my timing off this as I know my Bank 2 tool is wrong. The upper timing cover just needs to be correctly aligned for this final adjustment so a gasket is not needed. Once the timing wheel is set - I will remove the upper timing cover - torque the timing wheel to spec and then use the normal process.
In summary - this step will assure your timing is set as it should be in the event your timing tools are wrong. It will avoid having to go back in and turn the timing wheel a fraction which is the same work as changing the valve cover seal.
So, it is just a double check or work around for the poorly made Ebay tools many have.
On the Vanos - I had a spare rebuild so I swapped out Bank 2. My Beisan kit rebuilds were noiser than I liked. What I did find while searching is an outfit in Poland that rebuilds the unit - and actually opens them up and replaces the o-ring that the Beisan process does not - Beisan torques the plastic to squish harder on the o-ring to get more life from it. It may be worth a look at this Polish solution - since you are in Europe shipping would be way easier. Look here and poke around until you find it - http://mehenker.com/en/.
As to your question about doing Bank 2 first - the instructions are clear to do this, but some people miss this step as it becomes so repetitive they miss this instruction. Bank 2 first so that when you get to Bank 1 the chain tensioner will take up the slack - keeping the chain properly tensioned throughout. So it is just a reminder.
I think I was not clear on the upper timing cover step I have added. I know my tools (Ebay specials) throw a code on Bank 2. Others on multiple forums have this same issue - theory is the tool castings are off. My friend that borrowed my timing tool set had the same issue. I told him to finalize with this approach - his code issue was solved. But this required removing a silicon downed valve cover. The worse part of the timing guide job is cleaning off sealant on the rear of the heads. What I had to do the first time was to to pull the valve cover and move the timing wheel slightly. To solve this problem my solution will be to use my inferior bank 2 tool for initial settting, not torquing to spec - just finger tight. From here I will use the built in alignment tool that the upper timing covers have - it is sealed by an allen key near the cam position sensor. When the allen bolt is removed - insertion of a correct sized tool (some use an allen key that just fits) will go right into the timing wheel hole when the blocks are still on. Just like the timing jig does.
Proper installation of the upper timing cover requires the process you mention which is work - not to mention the sealant. I use clamps and palm pressure to get the upper timing covers flush with the head. Just look at what it looks like before you begin and replicate.
Back to the timing and faulty tools. What I am going to do has now changed. I will not use a gasket at all - I will put the Bank 2 upper timing cover on with a couple of bolts tight enough to hold position. It has to be aligned to the top of the head. By not using sealant or a gasket the process will only add a few minutes of work. Then I will use the built in opening and set my timing off this as I know my Bank 2 tool is wrong. The upper timing cover just needs to be correctly aligned for this final adjustment so a gasket is not needed. Once the timing wheel is set - I will remove the upper timing cover - torque the timing wheel to spec and then use the normal process.
In summary - this step will assure your timing is set as it should be in the event your timing tools are wrong. It will avoid having to go back in and turn the timing wheel a fraction which is the same work as changing the valve cover seal.
So, it is just a double check or work around for the poorly made Ebay tools many have.
holidaychicken
Well-Known Member
Hi, I have seen the procedure of opening up the vanos unit and then they turn down and screw cut a fine thread on the OD and then make a new cap which looks interesting. There are a couple of videos on you tube showing the procedure and so I am going to open one of my spare ones up. I don’t know what you have found but after fitting the vanos seals the units feel very tight to turn and the hydraulic system connecting to the unit via the manifold and solenoid is not what I consider to be sealed so I wonder if the units struggle to move.
All the units I have used the press tool on have had no gap between the plastic and the lip when checking with the thinnest feeler gauge.
I’ve not had any timing issues from either my cheap Ebay kit or the GAS kit and the procedure of fitting the cam covers without a seal but with two new rubber washers on each of the bolt positions , the new ones are thicker than used, works for me and doesn’t take up much time. Saint has a good quality timing kit which the cheap Ebay kits try and copy.
Cleaning the old silicone is a pain, I use a thin plastic scraper and patience.
Fitting a new green seal that feeds the main chain tensioner is also a must.
All the units I have used the press tool on have had no gap between the plastic and the lip when checking with the thinnest feeler gauge.
I’ve not had any timing issues from either my cheap Ebay kit or the GAS kit and the procedure of fitting the cam covers without a seal but with two new rubber washers on each of the bolt positions , the new ones are thicker than used, works for me and doesn’t take up much time. Saint has a good quality timing kit which the cheap Ebay kits try and copy.
Cleaning the old silicone is a pain, I use a thin plastic scraper and patience.
Fitting a new green seal that feeds the main chain tensioner is also a must.
