Should be checked regularly to avoid such surprises ....
Should be checked regularly to avoid such surprises ....
brianconwy
Well-Known Member
I take it you don't mean taking the sump off regularly?
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine a bad batch of HT bolts, or initial overtensioning leading to fatigue failure, as said a common fail, new correct grade bolt, fitted and not over stressed and use a loctite thread locker, should see it right, the puny little chain looks like it would be a risk on a bicycle, what happened to good old gear drive, but I guess it is what it is.
markomate2
Well-Known Member
Do you have a pic of the inside of your sump? Interested to see if the oil pump bolt chewed into the sump, which then caused it to sheer.
Chain drive oil pumps are pretty common, Honda's use them, nothing inherently wrong with them, as long as they are designed properly!
Mark
Chain drive oil pumps are pretty common, Honda's use them, nothing inherently wrong with them, as long as they are designed properly!
Mark
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
Just a comment on the puny chain drives on a lot of hi tech engines these days, BMW diesels, Td5's, seem to have an issue, I ran XJ Jag engines for years and although the 2 stage timing chains stretched and rattled a bit after lots of work as far as I know they were not prone to breaking.
I understand why they dont like heavy chains due to inertia issues, but from what I'm seeing they are becoming near as accursed a thing as the rubber timing belt.
And for a thing as vital as an oil pump I like the direct on crankshaft drive of the 300Tdi or the cam driven pump that many other engines use, if the oil pump stops so to usually does the engine.
neilly
Well-Known Member
The "normal" issue with the TD5 that leads to a failure like this, is normally the bolt unscrews. Historically a number of earlier cars appear to have been assembled with no threadlock on the bolt. Although a number of newer '02 / '03 MY, do appear to have the same issue and have had similar failures.
For the sake of a few hours, and has been suggested a number of times on this site is to check and verify / replace the bolt with a new one that has the threadlock already fitted as per the link posted in post #2..........
Cheers
ref the oil pump, i don't know how they are between the d2 and d3 but also on mine there is a lot of broken oil pumps casing catastrophic engine failure
got mine replaced , also noticed that mine was leaking , seems on the d3 the corner breaks off the casing and goes into the belts
here's a few pics
belt pics is mine, also got the water pump replaced at the same time
hope u don't mind me putting the post and pics in , as i know this post is for a d2
Speckydude
Well-Known Member
To be fair for the couple of hours it takes I'd check it every other oil change, better that than £2,500 for a 2nd hand lump fitted or £7,000 for a new one.
Speckydude
Well-Known Member
A lack of locktite type adhesive on the bolt on original assembly, but I have heard of new replacement bolts from LR, with yellow adhesive already on them failing too .
If you put your own threadlock on, remember to clean and degrease the bolt and hole and I usually wait 24hrs before refilling.
brianconwy
Well-Known Member
If I change the bolt then I will put plenty of threadlock on and torque it correctly and take my chances after that. I suppose it depends n the mileage you do and the oil change interval.
sorry for the late replies, took the day off to start the repair.
New chain, sprocket, bolt with thread lock on it and sump gasket now in my possession. £70.
So far I have the top end stripped down,
Crank shaft pulley removed along with all the bolts that hold the timing chain cover on, except the one that goes down from the top right hand side into the top of the cover, it's just a rod threaded on both ends with a nut on the top. I've got the nut off but i think the timing cover is stuck on with gasket seal and I've had enough for one day, besides I've thread locked the nut back on to see if I can get the stud out.
Good spot on the sump, it did suffer a bit of damage.
Thanks for everyones input.
New chain, sprocket, bolt with thread lock on it and sump gasket now in my possession. £70.
So far I have the top end stripped down,
Crank shaft pulley removed along with all the bolts that hold the timing chain cover on, except the one that goes down from the top right hand side into the top of the cover, it's just a rod threaded on both ends with a nut on the top. I've got the nut off but i think the timing cover is stuck on with gasket seal and I've had enough for one day, besides I've thread locked the nut back on to see if I can get the stud out.
Good spot on the sump, it did suffer a bit of damage.
Thanks for everyones input.
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
From what I'm seeing, some one on the engine assembly line was not on the ball, are all Td5's afflicted with this little oversight or did LR finally figure out that a RH thread in a place where a LH thread or mechanical lock tab should be was a bad design?
Thread locker technology saves the day again, the degrease idea is essential and they have excellent primers to use where scrupulously clean is not possible.
Can't even begin to imagine how many Td5's must have been destroyed by this oil pump drive failure, can't run an engine long without oil circulation.
Speckydude
Well-Known Member
There is a design doodit that shuts the engine down if the oil pump fails, but I'm sure that may be slow in reacting.
The doodit may allow a certain distance to allow for the oil already on the components. I drove no more than 1/4 mile home but when I tried to start it to run it up the ramps it turned over but wouldn't run.
On the design point not only did Landrover build it in, BMW left it there. Is there no hope.
Gazbo
Well-Known Member
Me thinks you got that right!
well the threadlock was a complete waste of time, I remembered an old trick from somewhere re twisting a piece of wire around the thread so with paper clip in hand I tried again and it worked a treat.
Timing cover is now removed along with a few sneaky pipes that got in the way, hopefully tomorrow nights job is to fit new chain, sprocket and bolt and since I'm away for a few days the threadlock will have plenty of time to set before it gets reassembled. Oh and not forgetting to clean the thread on the pump properly.
Question.
I also noticed some info about the timing chain having 2 black links as a guide to where the timing marks are and I appear to have a gold one. Does anyone know if some have gold and some have black or do all chains have both and mine are just not where they should be when timed up?
gstuart, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not working on your D3 but glad it's all ok now.
Timing cover is now removed along with a few sneaky pipes that got in the way, hopefully tomorrow nights job is to fit new chain, sprocket and bolt and since I'm away for a few days the threadlock will have plenty of time to set before it gets reassembled. Oh and not forgetting to clean the thread on the pump properly.
Question.
I also noticed some info about the timing chain having 2 black links as a guide to where the timing marks are and I appear to have a gold one. Does anyone know if some have gold and some have black or do all chains have both and mine are just not where they should be when timed up?
gstuart, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not working on your D3 but glad it's all ok now.
neilly
Well-Known Member
Hi
@backinblack , not sure if this is of any help or not, but i cam across this a while back.
http://www.lrrforums.com/showthread...at-the-inside-of-a-TD5-engine-I-am-rebuilding
Also, are you changing the timing chain guides?
Cheers
@backinblack , not sure if this is of any help or not, but i cam across this a while back.
http://www.lrrforums.com/showthread...at-the-inside-of-a-TD5-engine-I-am-rebuilding
Also, are you changing the timing chain guides?
Cheers
