Hello again everyone,

Well a few weeks ago I completed the left bank head replacement after a failure between 1 and 3. All good so I thought. 300 miles later and what happens? Right bank gone but done something really weird and wanted to run it past you guys.

Cylinder 4 was full of water, causing a hydraulic lock. Thing is, 3 hours before this happened I was driving it about, no problem at all.
Is this type of failure common or even heard of? See, I would expect the failure to be between the water way and the 1st or last cylinder on the bank, not a centre one. Could it be an inlet gasket issue?

Bit of light at the end of the tunnel would be good!! Thank you!!

customknight said:

Hello again everyone,

Well a few weeks ago I completed the left bank head replacement after a failure between 1 and 3. All good so I thought. 300 miles later and what happens? Right bank gone but done something really weird and wanted to run it past you guys.

Cylinder 4 was full of water, causing a hydraulic lock. Thing is, 3 hours before this happened I was driving it about, no problem at all.
Is this type of failure common or even heard of? See, I would expect the failure to be between the water way and the 1st or last cylinder on the bank, not a centre one. Could it be an inlet gasket issue?

Bit of light at the end of the tunnel would be good!! Thank you!!

Click to expand...

quite common blocks often crack around 4 or 6 ,earlier 3.9 before serpentine belt engines usual 3 or 5 in my experience,though could easy be another issue

Similar issue with mine. HG split between 5 & 3 on LH Bank, replaced that for RH bank to go a month later between 4 & 6 - no water as not near the waterways, mine gave no indication either, drove fine then sudden misfire. Anyway, after doing RH bank all is fine after 6 months (10k miles) ....touch wood.

Would a crack in the block cause a ylinder to fill up in 3 hours? Ps thanks for giving me a heart attack!!

Where are the waterways in the heads apart from either end?

either end

Wow, I'd never have guessed?!! Anywhere else??!

customknight said:

Would a crack in the block cause a ylinder to fill up in 3 hours? Ps thanks for giving me a heart attack!!

Where are the waterways in the heads apart from either end?

Click to expand...

quite possibly

customknight said:

Wow, I'd never have guessed?!! Anywhere else??!

Click to expand...

no head is obviously hollow theres a water way either end on head block face and either end inlet manifold face

I was asking because some engines use their bolt holes as waterways, ,was wondering if this was the same. Obviously not!!

martynv8 said:

Similar issue with mine. HG split between 5 & 3 on LH Bank, replaced that for RH bank to go a month later between 4 & 6 - no water as not near the waterways, mine gave no indication either, drove fine then sudden misfire. Anyway, after doing RH bank all is fine after 6 months (10k miles) ....touch wood.

Click to expand...

Wow, you're doing some mileage there!

I was thinking that myself!! Well I'm going to strip the head off at the weekend if I get chance, might be next week.
Is there a telltale indication that the block is cracked? I'm only asking in case the gasket is intact....god I hope it's not intact!

customknight said:

I was thinking that myself!! Well I'm going to strip the head off at the weekend if I get chance, might be next week.
Is there a telltale indication that the block is cracked? I'm only asking in case the gasket is intact....god I hope it's not intact!

Click to expand...

usually the cooling system pressurizes and it overheats,you wont see a cracked block as it cracks behind a cylinder liner,when you take the head off check that there is no lip between the block face and the liner.

Well I think it's time to update. Did a compression test before I stripped it and all cylinders at 140 psi. Good but equally not good.
Stripped it and something previously has gone thru cylinder 4, looks like a spark plug electrode has gone thru it at some point. But no swarf so its an old injury.
Anyway sent head off for pressure testing as I was informed that on occasion a cracked head can cause cylinders to get coolant within them. Head was fine, so had it skimmed, valves reground and apparently it was like a banana at one side so I don't know how the compression was any good! New valve stem oil seals so,it's now waiting to be refitted.
So after inspection it seems as if the block is cracked behind the liner but the liner has NOT slipped at all.

After weeks of research and conversations I am going to use a product system called irontite to seal the block. I don't wanna hear the usual ranting about the product or its temporary nature. It is designed specifically for this purpose and several of the companies I spoke to stated that they've never had a vehicle back after using it. Oe company even mentioned a vehicle lasting a further 7 years!
I don't have £2500 for a nice shiny new (pre cracked) Turner block, nor do I have £5000 for a new engine. I refuse to buy a second hand unit after speaking to several experts both here and in the USA as this problem can occur on any 38a engine that has run hot. Well, news flash, all the 4.6 V8's run hot! So that's out of the question.
(On a separate note has anyone ever wondered if this is caused by the stress of lugging an extra tonne around in the form of the 38a? You never hear of the 5.3 V8 TVR version cracking the block, or the 3.9 in the classic doing it, and considering its exactly the same as the 4.0 in the 38a, it certainly makes me wonder whether the vehicles mass has anything to do with the stresses on the motor)
My plan is to run it with irontite in it while I save up for a new block and basically to build up a new short block with top hat liners and include all new components. Once I am at head level I will look again at my heads and see if they are ok for use, if not, they'll be new too and when the time comes i'll enlist the help of someone with more knowledge than me to fit the engine!
I have ordered a new valley gasket (even though the last one is only 300 miles old) as it has been advised that they can cause leaking into cylinders as well so to be on the safe side to re clean everything and buy new. So once that arrives i'll rebuild the rest of the engine to LR specs.
So tomorrow ill clean everything, refit the head with new gasket and bolts and wait for Monday/ Tuesday for both the gasket and the Irontite to arrive.

I will also report on the problem continuously as irontite requires a caustic flush agent for ten minutes, followed by more water flushing, then a ceramic sealant running in the engine with plain water for three days. You then drop that mixture and leave the engine to dry out for 24 hours. Once that's done you add the third stage of the sealant to antifreeze and run as normal.

I will let you know if/when it works. Wish me luck. I love this truck even though it is 'Alien Vomit Green' as a friend has dubbed it. If this works it'll be black in no time!!! :tea:

Good luck with the Irontite - I've heard good stories about it - unlike K-seal.

StuckAgainSteve said:

Good luck with the Irontite - I've heard good stories about it - unlike K-seal.

Click to expand...

Well theres a reason behind that. K-seal uses a fibrous compound with copper and wet glass. Sticks to everything, even that all important hole in your thermostat. Don't use it in a 38a, you'll have head gasket failure in no time after it blocks up the rad and the matrix.

Oh yes, a point with the irontite. You MUST bypass the matrix and any water filtration you have in place before using it. Equally if you are using an LPG mixer, bypass that also or things will go a tad wrong! Easiest way I can se is to loop the coolant pipe from the expansion tank to the inlet manifold feed. that way it will completely bypass both the LPG mixer and the matrix without having to remove everything. £6 for a piece of coolant hose; job done.

To bad you don't tell us what happened with your V8 before you removed the first head. I am gathering she overheated, then you always do both heads simultaneously. In the world of engine construction a cylinder head warped more than 0.06mm is bent like a banana. Your compression test will not be influenced by that banana head, but its enough to let water leak past when nice and hot and under pressure. Did you inspect the head gasket after you removed the head, could you see where the water was entering the cylinder.
I have no clue about the stuff you are going to put int your cooling system, never heard about it.....hope it works, good luck and update us which ever way it goes.

Actually no, it didn't overheat, it's in another of my posts what happened. The reason i did the other head gasket was that it failed between cylinders 1 and 3 so there was no overheating or pressurising going on.
The head gasket on this side didn't cause it to overheat either, the gauge didn't move and I had no pressurisation in the water system, it was leaking through into the combustion chamber and being sent through the exhaust system, but obviously as it got worse it just filled the cylinder under pressure once the engine had stopped running.
So you're saying the block may not be cracked? Where would the water come from to get into cylinder 4? Unless the cylinder head was allowing water through AND the inlet gasket wasn't seated correctly? If it was cylinder 2 or 8 I could understand the head letting water past, but a middle cylinder? Much more likely to be a cracked block I thought? Any thoughts?
I hadn't heard of it either until I spent weeks researching this. It's America which is obviously why it works!!

When a cylinder head warps its due to overheating, under torquing of head bolts on previous repair, who knows the history of our second hand vehicles. There are concerns with the V8 block's cracking and the sleeves that ride up and there are very good fixes for them. By no means am I saying its not cracked, I tend to look at all the evidence and then hone in on the cause, and then fix it so that wont happen again. Then when a head does warp it warps in the middle more than on the outer edges. That is also the reason why when you remove a head you start from the outside working your way to the middle in more or less the same amount of stages that is required to fit and torque the head down, and fitting the head you start in the middle and work your way out.

What are the very good fixes you refer to? I guess you mean the top hat liners and rebuilds etc?!

The way my head had banana'd was exactly how you describe, so the skimming was an interesting watch!

I'll get on it tomorrow and let you know how things go. Fingers crossed.

Yes you are correct, well lets see what happens.......fingers crossed. What is your previous thred for this, I want to read it please.