Moron · Sep 24, 2013

Hmmmmm well it seems I really am a Moron......my P38a diesel doesnt enjoy starting from cold .....I replaced the glow plugs today but nothings changed .......ordered a coolant temp sensor after reading some of this forum but feel getting a diagnostic done and maybe pump timing checked/adjusted .
Anyone know of a reasonably priced/good specialist in Essex/East London please ?

trax · Sep 24, 2013

you could always check to see if the glows actually come on.

Moron · Sep 24, 2013

trax said:
you could always check to see if the glows actually come on.

If I turn the ignition on a few times to light the glowplug light on the dash , it does start ?

TCubed · Sep 24, 2013

Have a check on Landyzone International Rescue to see if there's anyone near you with the equipment

What year and mileage is yours?

Moron · Sep 24, 2013

TCubed said:
Have a check on Landyzone International Rescue to see if there's anyone near you with the equipment
What year and mileage is yours?

Its a 97 with 130,000 up

NikTheGeek · Sep 24, 2013

Moron said:
If I turn the ignition on a few times to light the glowplug light on the dash , it does start ?

Mine does that. Glow plug light comes on, then goes off. If I try to start it, it struggles but does eventually.

However, if I cycle the ignition, just twice, before turning in over (so the glow plug light comes on twice) it starts perfectly!

I have changed plugs and it didn't make a bit of a difference. I haven't checked the glow plug relay, but I was wondering if it was my intank pump and doing it twice is getting enough fuel through.

Just a thought...

Nik

Dippypud · Sep 24, 2013

NikTheGeek said:
Mine does that. Glow plug light comes on, then goes off. If I try to start it, it struggles but does eventually.

However, if I cycle the ignition, just twice, before turning in over (so the glow plug light comes on twice) it starts perfectly!

I have changed plugs and it didn't make a bit of a difference. I haven't checked the glow plug relay, but I was wondering if it was my intank pump and doing it twice is getting enough fuel through.

Just a thought...

Nik

You shouldn't need glow plugs, even in Wigan at this time of year ...
is your lift pump ? OK

NikTheGeek · Sep 24, 2013

Dippypud said:
You shouldn't need glow plugs, even in Wigan at this time of year ...
is your lift pump ? OK

That's what I said

"my intank pump"

So yes, I think I agree. But it must be working a bit as it doesn't run out of fuel when there's only a bit in...

Nik

Moron · Sep 24, 2013

NikTheGeek said:
Mine does that. Glow plug light comes on, then goes off. If I try to start it, it struggles but does eventually.

However, if I cycle the ignition, just twice, before turning in over (so the glow plug light comes on twice) it starts perfectly!

I have changed plugs and it didn't make a bit of a difference. I haven't checked the glow plug relay, but I was wondering if it was my intank pump and doing it twice is getting enough fuel through.

Just a thought...

Nik

How does it work? Relay times the power to the glowplugs and the in tank pump too? And best way to test/eliminate in tank pump ?
And does the fip rely on the in tank pump to feed it when the engines running or is it just to prime the system initially ?

NikTheGeek · Sep 24, 2013

Moron said:
How does it work? Relay times the power to the glowplugs and the in tank pump too? And best way to test/eliminate in tank pump ?

That is my understanding yes. There is a test that I can't remember. Someone will be along with the instructions I'm sure...

dogsbody · Sep 25, 2013

NikTheGeek said:
That is my understanding yes. There is a test that I can't remember. Someone will be along with the instructions I'm sure...

Either disconnect a pipe or drop the filter. Turn ignition on. You should get 180ml of fuel in 10 seconds. You really need a mate to help with this, that's why Nick has never done his

dogsbody · Sep 25, 2013

NikTheGeek said:
That's what I said "my intank pump"

So yes, I think I agree. But it must be working a bit as it doesn't run out of fuel when there's only a bit in...

Nik

Even if the in-tank is faulty the FIP will continue to draw the fuel up.
Have you checked your injector leak-off pipes?

wammers · Sep 25, 2013

Ignition will not run lift pump for 10 seconds. It will only run whilst glow lamp is lit. You must power pin 5 on relay 12 for exactly 10 seconds then you should get a minimum of 180ml in that time. Glow lamp timing is variable not constant. The colder the ECU temp sensor tells the ECU the coolant is the longer they stay on. Check the voltage getting to the plugs you should not need to energise a set of new plugs twice to get the engine to fire. Remove glow delay relay from ECU box and check terminals for good contact and burning.

Moron · Sep 25, 2013

wammers said:
Ignition will not run lift pump for 10 seconds. It will only run whilst glow lamp is lit. You must power pin 5 on relay 12 for exactly 10 seconds then you should get a minimum of 180ml in that time. Glow lamp timing is variable not constant. The colder the ECU temp sensor tells the ECU the coolant is the longer they stay on. Check the voltage getting to the plugs you should not need to energise a set of new plugs twice to get the engine to fire. Remove glow delay relay from ECU box and check terminals for good contact and burning.

Sorry but can you point me to the location of this relay please ? and thanks for the help everyone

wammers · Sep 25, 2013

Moron said:
Sorry but can you point me to the location of this relay please ? and thanks for the help everyone

Thought "Remove relay from ECU box" may have been a clue. That is engine ECU box behind battery. Be careful in there disconnect battery negative first.

Moron · Sep 25, 2013

wammers said:
Thought "Remove relay from ECU box" may have been a clue. That is engine ECU box behind battery. Be careful in there disconnect battery negative first.

Thanks Wammers ( I didnt know how many locations lr hide the relays in )

Moron · Sep 25, 2013

wammers said:
Thought "Remove relay from ECU box" may have been a clue. That is engine ECU box behind battery. Be careful in there disconnect battery negative first.

Wammers is there a specific reason to disconnect the battery before removing a relay please or are you being carefull?

wammers · Sep 25, 2013

Moron said:
Wammers is there a specific reason to disconnect the battery before removing a relay please or are you being carefull?

The glow timer relay is not a relay as you know it. It is in the Engine ECU box, it has a permanent live direct from the battery to an 80 AMP fuse that is part of it. Touching that live on the ECU casing may cause you a few problems. Disconnect at least the negative battery lead. If you have a BBUS, battery back up sounder (four wires to sounder unit). Correct method is slacken negative lead but DO NOT remove it. Switch ignition on then off and disconnect negative lead within 17 seconds. Or you may go deaf.

Datatek · Sep 25, 2013

Dippypud said:
You shouldn't need glow plugs, even in Wigan at this time of year ...
is your lift pump ? OK

For a cold start on the M51 you need glow plugs even with 25C you also need good quality glow plugs. I'm not aware that FIP timing chain stretch causes an issue with cold starts.

Grit Valve · Sep 25, 2013

trax said:
you could always check to see if the glows actually come on.

+1 could be the relay timer .

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