nunny.bdsc
New Member
see what the rest say callum,i dont have a problem with you coming along,and disco maniac cant make it and it was going to be 11 with him,whats everyone els think...can add callum for me
see what the rest say callum,i dont have a problem with you coming along,and disco maniac cant make it and it was going to be 11 with him,whats everyone els think...can add callum for me
defender11069
AKA Mr cool...
im ok with that :crazy_driver:
Callum-d90
New Member
That mean I'm in? Or? If so where we meeting Ect? Can I tag on with someone from close to home for the drive up?
nunny.bdsc
New Member
i will add you to list ,cant see their been a problem as we thought we would have 11 anyway,but thats it defo no more this trip
1.bigc2011
2.nick2303
3.nunny
4.coatsy
5.Gaz Jackson
6.defender11069
7.lowey
8.richy 2011
9.joe disco
10.slee86
11. callum-d90
you could meet me at ainley top roundabout callum (in huddersfield *)f ya want....or at my house
1.bigc2011
2.nick2303
3.nunny
4.coatsy
5.Gaz Jackson
6.defender11069
7.lowey
8.richy 2011
9.joe disco
10.slee86
11. callum-d90
you could meet me at ainley top roundabout callum (in huddersfield *)f ya want....or at my house
Last edited:
Gazjackson
New Member
probably a silly question but just interested as to why there is a limit on numbers
joe disco
Active Member
thats fine with me more the merrier, what maps have you got defender110 because on my maps the diamonds are national trails and arnt sure wether you can drive them and the lanes we can drive are the ones with small crosses or 2 black lines with green dots in thats if you have os land rangers. and does any body fancy a a bit of laning one night got a new map theres loads of lanes on it over near dalby forest or shall we arrange there for our next outing
joe disco
Active Member
god knows mate good question im guessing its so people dont get too ****ed off who are out walking and so on
Gazjackson
New Member
im free to go anytime
i no my way round holmfirth if u fancy one night joe
i no my way round holmfirth if u fancy one night joe
joe disco
Active Member
ive been round there myself mate its quite good int it, think if i go one night it will be to dalby forest area lanes look good round there but like i said do we just wait and arrange there for a weekend ive been told lanes there are tricky but we can judge that if we go
Gazjackson
New Member
im up for owt mate
can go midweek if anyone fancies it
can go midweek if anyone fancies it
Callum-d90
New Member
nunny.bdsc
New Member
nunny.bdsc
New Member
Northern-Monkey-Offroad
Midlands and Northern England based greenlaning and offroad club
WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF YOU GO WHERE YOU SHOULD NOT BE
Just so you are aware of what could happen if you are where you are not supposed to be
Section 59' vehicle seizures
Taken from the GLASS Web Site
An opinion compiled from several sources - thanks all !
The Legislation:
Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002 states that -
Where an officer has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used in a manner which contravenes Road Traffic Act Section 3 (Careless Driving) OR Section 34 (Driving elsewhere than on a road) AND also the manner of use of the vehicle is causing or has been causing or is likely to cause, alarm distress or annoyance to members of the public, Section 59 can be used to:-
initially give a written warning (valid for twelve months)
(commonly called a Section 59 Notice)
and on a subsequent occasion to seize the vehicle.
(it will probably end up in the crusher, or may be ransomed back to the owner)
A constable in uniform has the power to order the person driving to stop the vehicle, to seize and remove the vehicle, to enter any premises on which the officer has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be and to use reasonable force. Seizure can made only if a warning has been given, or believed to have been given, or if a warning is clearly being ignored.
So, usually it's a two-stage process - a warning or notice first, seizure if you persist or repeat.
Full text of Police Reform Act section 59 here.
Police Reform Act 2002
2002 c.30
The following extracts were provided by Dave Codrai ;
49. Power of Arrest in relation to failure to stop a vehicle
(1) In section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (failure to stop when required to do so by a constable in uniform), after subsection (3) there shall be inserted -
"(4) A constable in uniform may Arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that the person has committed an offence under this section."
(2) In section 17(1)(c) of the 1984 Act (power of entry to effect Arrest for certain offences), after sub-paragraph (iii) there shall be inserted -
"(iiia) section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (failure to stop when required to do so by a constable in uniform);"
(3) This section has no effect in relation to offences committed before its commencement.
Seizure of motor vehicles
59. Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which -
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3) Those powers are -
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless -
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5) Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if -
(a) the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b) the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
(6) A person who fails to comply with an order under subsection (3)(a) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7) Subsection (3)(c) does not authorise entry into a private dwelling house.
(8) The powers conferred on a constable by this section shall be exercisable only at a time when regulations under section 60 are in force.
(9) In this section -
"driving" has the same meaning as in the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52);
"motor vehicle" means any mechanically propelled vehicle, whether or not it is intended or adapted for use on roads; and
"private dwelling house" does not include any garage or other structure occupied with the dwelling house, or any land appurtenant to the dwelling house.
60. Retention etc. of vehicles seized under section 59
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision as to -
(a) the removal and retention of motor vehicles seized under section 59; and
(b) the release or disposal of such motor vehicles.
(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may, in particular, make provision -
(a) for the giving of notice of the seizure of a motor vehicle under section 59 to a person who is the owner of that vehicle or who, in accordance with the regulations, appears to be its owner;
(b) for the procedure by which a person who claims to be the owner of a motor vehicle seized under section 59 may seek to have it released;
(c) for requiring the payment of fees, charges or costs in relation to the removal and retention of such a motor vehicle and to any application for its release;
(d) as to the circumstances in which a motor vehicle seized under section 59 may be disposed of;
(e) as to the destination -
(i) of any fees or charges payable in accordance with the regulations; and
(ii) of the proceeds (if any) arising from the disposal of a motor vehicle seized under section 59;
(f) for the delivery to a local authority, in circumstances prescribed by or determined in accordance with the regulations, of any motor vehicle seized under section 59.
(3) Regulations under subsection (1) must provide that a person who would otherwise be liable to pay any fee or charge under the regulations shall not be liable to pay it if -
(a) the use by reference to which the motor vehicle in question was seized was not a use by him; and
(b) he did not know of the use of the vehicle in the manner which led to its seizure, had not consented to its use in that manner and could not, by the taking of reasonable steps, have prevented its use in that manner.
(4) In this section -
"local authority" -
(a) in relation to England, means the council of a county, metropolitan district or London borough, the Common Council of the City of London or Transport for London; and
(b) in relation to Wales, means the council of a county or county borough;
"motor vehicle" has the same meaning as in section 59.
Section 3 Road Traffic Act –
3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
(Examples are – wheel spinning, skidding, revving engine excessivly, handbrake turns etc)
Section 34 Road Traffic Act (extract) –
34.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle
(a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or
(b) on any road being a Footpath, Bridleway or restricted byway,
he is guilty of an offence.
(So you may only drive on a 'road' - including BOATs. Note that using a Private road without permission is NOT a s.34 offence, it is a trespass, unless it happens to also be a Public Footpath etc.)
(2) It is not an offence under this section to drive a motor vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.
(For younger readers that's about 15m, but ONLY for parking)
Enforcement Issues:
This legislation includes mechanically propelled vehicles, not intended or adapted for use on the road (minimotos etc.), as well as road-legal motors.
Section 3 RTA will include car parks that are open to the public – and other areas where the public would be expected to have access.
The powers cannot be exercised unless the driver is BOTH using the vehicle anti-socially AND is committing either the section 3 or the section 34 offence. Someone driving in a way that might be considered anti-social but not committing either of these offences is not liable to having his vehicle seized, nor is someone committing a different motoring offence. Nor is someone driving sensibly on a Footpath - though of course they are still liable to 'ordinary' prosecution under s.34 RTA.
Note that the officer at the time of the warning only has to have ‘reasonable grounds’ for believing that one of the offences has been committed, e.g. a believable report. It may transpire later that this is or was not the case, hence the guidelines below.
The warning is given to both the driver and the vehicle. This means that if either are subsequently stopped then a seizure may take place even if another driver is in the original vehicle, or the original driver is another vehicle….. be warned! The warning may be verbal, with paperwork to follow, or forms filled in on the spot. In either case the constable must make it clear what is happening.
Recommended Actions:
At the ‘scene’:
Firstly remain calm and polite. Getting hot under the collar may only lead to further offences (Public Order Act or Obstruction ).
Establish what offence you have committed for the officer to initiate a Section 59 Warning or Seizure. It may be prudent to carry a print of the above legislation to discuss with the officer – many officers give out warnings because they have had a report of Nuisance vehicles but do not understand the legislation in its entirety.
Ask if the officer intends to prosecute for the offence committed (some forces have a local policy to prosecute). Remember s.59 only applies if you may have already committed an offence, which could be prosecuted for anyway.
Ask the officer for his force number/collar number, name, station and name of his area Commander.
Ask for a copy of any paperwork you are asked to sign.
Do not be argumentative! But do know your onions – are you on a BOAT, UCR, private road etc and is the officer aware of its status?
Subsequent action:
If you have clearly done something wrong and are being prosecuted – get a solicitor….
If you have received a Section 59 warning and are unsure why, or feel that it was unjust or issued inappropriately then you need to establish your position.
Write to the Area Commander at the police station/area that the warning was issued and establish exactly what offence you committed (ie. Section 3 or 34) and what action is being taken. If you know they are prosecuting you then ask for Disclosure (this may be best done through a solicitor). Disclosure will be a pack of documents outlining the Prosecution case and should include witness statements, the officers statement, video copies and such like. This will give you a picture of the case against you in order to fight your corner.
Often at this stage a correctly worded letter or defence statement may negate any summons or court appearance if the warning was issued incorrectly or inappropriately. Keep to the facts and do not rant and rave about your thoughts on the local constabulary….
Simon Wilson
North Nottinghamshire rep for GLASS
If you need help please ask or email me on nottinghamshirnorth.rep@glass-uk.org
simon
Event Leader
Good write up on the subject
courtesy of northern monkey off road club
Midlands and Northern England based greenlaning and offroad club
WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF YOU GO WHERE YOU SHOULD NOT BE
Just so you are aware of what could happen if you are where you are not supposed to be
Section 59' vehicle seizures
Taken from the GLASS Web Site
An opinion compiled from several sources - thanks all !
The Legislation:
Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002 states that -
Where an officer has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used in a manner which contravenes Road Traffic Act Section 3 (Careless Driving) OR Section 34 (Driving elsewhere than on a road) AND also the manner of use of the vehicle is causing or has been causing or is likely to cause, alarm distress or annoyance to members of the public, Section 59 can be used to:-
initially give a written warning (valid for twelve months)
(commonly called a Section 59 Notice)
and on a subsequent occasion to seize the vehicle.
(it will probably end up in the crusher, or may be ransomed back to the owner)
A constable in uniform has the power to order the person driving to stop the vehicle, to seize and remove the vehicle, to enter any premises on which the officer has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be and to use reasonable force. Seizure can made only if a warning has been given, or believed to have been given, or if a warning is clearly being ignored.
So, usually it's a two-stage process - a warning or notice first, seizure if you persist or repeat.
Full text of Police Reform Act section 59 here.
Police Reform Act 2002
2002 c.30
The following extracts were provided by Dave Codrai ;
49. Power of Arrest in relation to failure to stop a vehicle
(1) In section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (failure to stop when required to do so by a constable in uniform), after subsection (3) there shall be inserted -
"(4) A constable in uniform may Arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that the person has committed an offence under this section."
(2) In section 17(1)(c) of the 1984 Act (power of entry to effect Arrest for certain offences), after sub-paragraph (iii) there shall be inserted -
"(iiia) section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (failure to stop when required to do so by a constable in uniform);"
(3) This section has no effect in relation to offences committed before its commencement.
Seizure of motor vehicles
59. Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which -
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3) Those powers are -
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless -
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5) Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if -
(a) the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b) the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
(6) A person who fails to comply with an order under subsection (3)(a) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(7) Subsection (3)(c) does not authorise entry into a private dwelling house.
(8) The powers conferred on a constable by this section shall be exercisable only at a time when regulations under section 60 are in force.
(9) In this section -
"driving" has the same meaning as in the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52);
"motor vehicle" means any mechanically propelled vehicle, whether or not it is intended or adapted for use on roads; and
"private dwelling house" does not include any garage or other structure occupied with the dwelling house, or any land appurtenant to the dwelling house.
60. Retention etc. of vehicles seized under section 59
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision as to -
(a) the removal and retention of motor vehicles seized under section 59; and
(b) the release or disposal of such motor vehicles.
(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may, in particular, make provision -
(a) for the giving of notice of the seizure of a motor vehicle under section 59 to a person who is the owner of that vehicle or who, in accordance with the regulations, appears to be its owner;
(b) for the procedure by which a person who claims to be the owner of a motor vehicle seized under section 59 may seek to have it released;
(c) for requiring the payment of fees, charges or costs in relation to the removal and retention of such a motor vehicle and to any application for its release;
(d) as to the circumstances in which a motor vehicle seized under section 59 may be disposed of;
(e) as to the destination -
(i) of any fees or charges payable in accordance with the regulations; and
(ii) of the proceeds (if any) arising from the disposal of a motor vehicle seized under section 59;
(f) for the delivery to a local authority, in circumstances prescribed by or determined in accordance with the regulations, of any motor vehicle seized under section 59.
(3) Regulations under subsection (1) must provide that a person who would otherwise be liable to pay any fee or charge under the regulations shall not be liable to pay it if -
(a) the use by reference to which the motor vehicle in question was seized was not a use by him; and
(b) he did not know of the use of the vehicle in the manner which led to its seizure, had not consented to its use in that manner and could not, by the taking of reasonable steps, have prevented its use in that manner.
(4) In this section -
"local authority" -
(a) in relation to England, means the council of a county, metropolitan district or London borough, the Common Council of the City of London or Transport for London; and
(b) in relation to Wales, means the council of a county or county borough;
"motor vehicle" has the same meaning as in section 59.
Section 3 Road Traffic Act –
3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.
(Examples are – wheel spinning, skidding, revving engine excessivly, handbrake turns etc)
Section 34 Road Traffic Act (extract) –
34.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle
(a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or
(b) on any road being a Footpath, Bridleway or restricted byway,
he is guilty of an offence.
(So you may only drive on a 'road' - including BOATs. Note that using a Private road without permission is NOT a s.34 offence, it is a trespass, unless it happens to also be a Public Footpath etc.)
(2) It is not an offence under this section to drive a motor vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.
(For younger readers that's about 15m, but ONLY for parking)
Enforcement Issues:
This legislation includes mechanically propelled vehicles, not intended or adapted for use on the road (minimotos etc.), as well as road-legal motors.
Section 3 RTA will include car parks that are open to the public – and other areas where the public would be expected to have access.
The powers cannot be exercised unless the driver is BOTH using the vehicle anti-socially AND is committing either the section 3 or the section 34 offence. Someone driving in a way that might be considered anti-social but not committing either of these offences is not liable to having his vehicle seized, nor is someone committing a different motoring offence. Nor is someone driving sensibly on a Footpath - though of course they are still liable to 'ordinary' prosecution under s.34 RTA.
Note that the officer at the time of the warning only has to have ‘reasonable grounds’ for believing that one of the offences has been committed, e.g. a believable report. It may transpire later that this is or was not the case, hence the guidelines below.
The warning is given to both the driver and the vehicle. This means that if either are subsequently stopped then a seizure may take place even if another driver is in the original vehicle, or the original driver is another vehicle….. be warned! The warning may be verbal, with paperwork to follow, or forms filled in on the spot. In either case the constable must make it clear what is happening.
Recommended Actions:
At the ‘scene’:
Firstly remain calm and polite. Getting hot under the collar may only lead to further offences (Public Order Act or Obstruction ).
Establish what offence you have committed for the officer to initiate a Section 59 Warning or Seizure. It may be prudent to carry a print of the above legislation to discuss with the officer – many officers give out warnings because they have had a report of Nuisance vehicles but do not understand the legislation in its entirety.
Ask if the officer intends to prosecute for the offence committed (some forces have a local policy to prosecute). Remember s.59 only applies if you may have already committed an offence, which could be prosecuted for anyway.
Ask the officer for his force number/collar number, name, station and name of his area Commander.
Ask for a copy of any paperwork you are asked to sign.
Do not be argumentative! But do know your onions – are you on a BOAT, UCR, private road etc and is the officer aware of its status?
Subsequent action:
If you have clearly done something wrong and are being prosecuted – get a solicitor….
If you have received a Section 59 warning and are unsure why, or feel that it was unjust or issued inappropriately then you need to establish your position.
Write to the Area Commander at the police station/area that the warning was issued and establish exactly what offence you committed (ie. Section 3 or 34) and what action is being taken. If you know they are prosecuting you then ask for Disclosure (this may be best done through a solicitor). Disclosure will be a pack of documents outlining the Prosecution case and should include witness statements, the officers statement, video copies and such like. This will give you a picture of the case against you in order to fight your corner.
Often at this stage a correctly worded letter or defence statement may negate any summons or court appearance if the warning was issued incorrectly or inappropriately. Keep to the facts and do not rant and rave about your thoughts on the local constabulary….
Simon Wilson
North Nottinghamshire rep for GLASS
If you need help please ask or email me on nottinghamshirnorth.rep@glass-uk.org
simon
Event Leader
Good write up on the subject
courtesy of northern monkey off road club
Last edited:
Gazjackson
New Member
thank god for copy and paste eh
( or bill gates )
( or bill gates )
joe disco
Active Member
im certain there the routes you can drive on, ive spoke to north yorks council a few times now but only thing they said was some roads have tros on and would just be a case of driving to the lanes and seeing if there are any signs saying wether you can drive on them and 99% of the black lines with green dots in are legal lanes to drive on, and the +-+-+ these are bywas open to all traffic which i think are maintained to a certain extent, but if you are unsure take a look at north yorkshire council web site and go on out and about this explains what each icon means properly and so on but like i said ive never had any problems driving these lanes
defender11069
AKA Mr cool...
they keep vehicles to 5 or 6 at the most to stop the walkers getting ****ed at ya
defender11069
AKA Mr cool...
i meant diamonds in side lines at gouthwaite resr just a starting point 4 nunny to look on map lol
Last edited:
joe disco
Active Member
sorry thought you meant that you could drive on the diamonds, my bad, how many people are up for laning one evening, and what day would suit everyone best if we arrange to go
Gazjackson
New Member
any time for me
