I saw one yesterday in Chiswick. Looked okay in the flesh I thought.
The numberplate was 1 RRU.

I've been a bottom feeder with cars for about 20 years, so I doubt I'll be looking to get one any time soon. I can just about handle the electrics on the P38, anything newer I'd be at the mercy of the dealers, and i can't afford that!
 
I think that's exactly the point though; cost and willingness/ability to pay. One who buys a brand new Rangie is one who's willing to pay for the yearly service, and if necessary purchase a replacement component. One who isn't buys a car which won't break down, or if it does will be easily and personally repairable.
In addition, I really doubt the new Rangie (what's it called, have we got that yet?) will share the unreliability traits with its predecessors. Land Rover's changed ownership, has new designers, new factories, a new ethos, and frankly; a new market. Short of the badge and the prestige factor, their new cars (Evoque, new RR, the replacement for the Defender) cannot be compared to the days of old.
 
TCubed said:
I think that's exactly the point though; cost and willingness/ability to pay. One who buys a brand new Rangie is one who's willing to pay for the yearly service, and if necessary purchase a replacement component. One who isn't buys a car which won't break down, or if it does will be easily and personally repairable.
In addition, I really doubt the new Rangie (what's it called, have we got that yet?) will share the unreliability traits with its predecessors. Land Rover's changed ownership, has new designers, new factories, a new ethos, and frankly; a new market. Short of the badge and the prestige factor, their new cars (Evoque, new RR, the replacement for the Defender) cannot be compared to the days of old.
Click to expand...

L405, still Range Rover
 
TCubed said:
I think that's exactly the point though; cost and willingness/ability to pay. One who buys a brand new Rangie is one who's willing to pay for the yearly service, and if necessary purchase a replacement component. One who isn't buys a car which won't break down, or if it does will be easily and personally repairable.
In addition, I really doubt the new Rangie (what's it called, have we got that yet?) will share the unreliability traits with its predecessors. Land Rover's changed ownership, has new designers, new factories, a new ethos, and frankly; a new market. Short of the badge and the prestige factor, their new cars (Evoque, new RR, the replacement for the Defender) cannot be compared to the days of old.
Click to expand...
LR have not made a reliable vehicle in decades, it's not likely to change overnight especially as it's loaded with even more unnecessary electronics:rolleyes:
 
Datatek said:
LR have not made a reliable vehicle in decades, it's not likely to change overnight especially as it's loaded with even more unnecessary electronics:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

But are they unnecessary? The answer is yes, if you're not going to use them, but a resounding no if you're a customer who wants them. After all, necessity is so tedious; if we all had cars which only had necessary components, the roads would be monumentally boring... Well.. we'd all probably have Willys Jeeps so maybe not.. but the point is that unnecessary stuff is fun, makes things interesting. The modern RR split screen technology is astonishing, and the multi-directional camera's will spend 1% of their time being useful, and the remainder being just generically awesome! You can probably tell I love fun, different stuff, and this car will be the ultimate expression of that, a bit like the SUV equivalent of the Mercedes SLS.
 
TCubed said:
But are they unnecessary? The answer is yes, if you're not going to use them, but a resounding no if you're a customer who wants them. After all, necessity is so tedious; if we all had cars which only had necessary components, the roads would be monumentally boring... Well.. we'd all probably have Willys Jeeps so maybe not.. but the point is that unnecessary stuff is fun, makes things interesting. The modern RR split screen technology is astonishing, and the multi-directional camera's will spend 1% of their time being useful, and the remainder being just generically awesome! You can probably tell I love fun, different stuff, and this car will be the ultimate expression of that, a bit like the SUV equivalent of the Mercedes SLS.
Click to expand...

You are the sort of person that will pay £600 for an Ipad that will be out of date in 6 months.
It's all about image. Most of the stuff will never get used and the rest is just bloody annoying, like the bleeping parking sensors, and it all adds to the cost. Of course there a lot who like to boast about all the gizmo's to mates down the pub, the same people who cannot be bothered to read the fecking owners manual to find out how it all works.
There is good electronics and bad.
Engine management, good saves fuel.
Electronically controlled Auto boxes, good much more responsive with improved shift quality.
Traction control, bad, a Torsen diff is better with no use limitations.
Push button parking as per Ford for the numpty's that can't manage a parallel park, good saves them using my car as an end of movement indicator.

Personally I have never found driving boring however basic the car, the more input and skill needed the better.
The unecessary stuff is just a distraction, look at the number of accidents now being caused by people staring at Sat navs not to mention mobile phones.
 
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Datatek said:
You are the sort of person that will pay £600 for an Ipad that will be out of date in 6 months.
It's all about image. Most of the stuff will never get used and the rest is just bloody annoying, like the bleeping parking sensors, and it all adds to the cost. Of course there a lot who like to boast about all the gizmo's to mates down the pub, the same people who cannot be bothered to read the fecking owners manual to find out how it all works.
There is good electronics and bad.
Engine management, good saves fuel.
Electronically controlled Auto boxes, good much more responsive with improved shift quality.
Traction control, bad, a Torsen diff is better with no use limitations.
Push button parking as per Ford for the numpty's that can't manage a parallel park, good saves them using my car as an end of movement indicator.
Click to expand...

Certainly not :p who would want a jumped up digital newspaper named after a feminine hygiene product?
The thing is though Data, I know exactly what you mean, I myself insist on having the most basic phone possible because I just want phone, text and snake - nothing else. But... I love seeing people who have got iPhones with the most ridiculous and stupid apps installed, because I find them funny, making things more interesting :)
I would rather have a Jaguar E-Type with it's beautiful looks and simplicity over a new Jag XJ with all the bells and whistles, but I still love the technological capabilities of the latter, like the twisty gear controller - completely pointless, but a great idea to prove that the human race still has a fun, inventive side.
With respect to the auto parking, I agree entirely that that is probably the most stupid feature ever fitted to any car degrading the modern driver, but I don't condemn it, because people have the choice to buy it, so for someone like me who has no intention of ever owning such a thing, it's a fun thing to, if nothing else, mock :)
 
TCubed said:
Certainly not :p who would want a jumped up digital newspaper named after a feminine hygiene product?
The thing is though Data, I know exactly what you mean, I myself insist on having the most basic phone possible because I just want phone, text and snake - nothing else. But... I love seeing people who have got iPhones with the most ridiculous and stupid apps installed, because I find them funny, making things more interesting :)
I would rather have a Jaguar E-Type with it's beautiful looks and simplicity over a new Jag XJ with all the bells and whistles, but I still love the technological capabilities of the latter, like the twisty gear controller - completely pointless, but a great idea to prove that the human race still has a fun, inventive side.
With respect to the auto parking, I agree entirely that that is probably the most stupid feature ever fitted to any car degrading the modern driver, but I don't condemn it, because people have the choice to buy it, so for someone like me who has no intention of ever owning such a thing, it's a fun thing to, if nothing else, mock :)
Click to expand...


Most of it is a total waste of time and cash. Folks have been brainwashed into believing they can't survive without the latest gizmo, all it is doing is hastening the demise of the civilisation as we know it because of the colossall waste and over reliance on fragile technology.
The bank computer crash is just a small example of the sort of chaos that will ensue if large numbers of servers are taken out by a solar flare.
 
Errrmmm.....

I have an iPad - iPod - iPhone - L322 - Kick Ass Computer (I do 3D Modelling and Animations as part of my Job) - Big Screen TV - Blu-Ray player etc etc....

I guess I should butt out of this convo....

But I will say this - I love the L322 because it is an evolution on the P38 - not because it is 'the must have Range Rover all bling bling like' that I can boast with down the pub (don't drink - don't go down the pub) I just love the look and the drive - yes it beeps at me when I park it, but I don't rely on it.....
 
Jobs chose i as a prefix to stand for all the fecking (i)diots who made him rich. Lot of good it did him didn't live long did he?
 
Datatek said:
Jobs chose i as a prefix to stand for all the fecking (i)diots who made him rich. Lot of good it did him didn't live long did he?
Click to expand...

Jobs died from pancreatic cancer; since he was an American citizen his increased wealth likely extended his life as he'd have been able to afford superior healthcare.
I never ever plan to own an Apple product, but it isn't fair to slag them off on no grounds beyond discrimination..

It is also if I may say so, rather ignorant to condemn modern technology in this way. The mobile phone, for example, is probably the most important factor in assisting poverty stricken people, by providing effective trading communication. To extrapolate this example to our world, by having this technology in high-end cars, it will eventually develop to be available for everyone; I cite you the P38 satnav - originally a £2000 optional extra, yet is inferior to a £60 Garmin today. People today are not being brainwashed, they are adapting. The digital age of today is an update from the 20th century technology, and its existence is no different with respect to human history, as every major development and age change throughout history.
Yes we could all stay in a single timezone and not pioneer or embrace new technology, but I for one don't want to watch humanity do that.
 
I think it looks great. Like has been said before, without innovation; we will never improve the way we do things. Plus the fact, its bloody boring being sensible all the time!
 
Datatek said:
LR have not made a reliable vehicle in decades, it's not likely to change overnight especially as it's loaded with even more unnecessary electronics:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Freelander IIs are not unreliable, okay they are not Toyota-reliable but they are not terribly unreliable cars.
 
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TCubed said:
Jobs died from pancreatic cancer; since he was an American citizen his increased wealth likely extended his life as he'd have been able to afford superior healthcare.
I never ever plan to own an Apple product, but it isn't fair to slag them off on no grounds beyond discrimination..

It is also if I may say so, rather ignorant to condemn modern technology in this way. The mobile phone, for example, is probably the most important factor in assisting poverty stricken people, by providing effective trading communication. To extrapolate this example to our world, by having this technology in high-end cars, it will eventually develop to be available for everyone; I cite you the P38 satnav - originally a £2000 optional extra, yet is inferior to a £60 Garmin today. People today are not being brainwashed, they are adapting. The digital age of today is an update from the 20th century technology, and its existence is no different with respect to human history, as every major development and age change throughout history.
Yes we could all stay in a single timezone and not pioneer or embrace new technology, but I for one don't want to watch humanity do that.
Click to expand...

I have nothing against new technology, I even designed and produced some of it in my time. The point I was making about Apple is that it is stupid that people pay £600 for a device made in China that cost less the £50 to make when you can buy a tablet computer that will do all the things most people are likely to use for a good bit under £200, both will give you a new form of RSI if used a lot. Literally hundreds of people are getting lost trying to hill walk using iPhone built in GPS. To many people, image is more important than function, especially among the young so they pay their £600 for an iPad because it's an Apple product.

Mobile phones are very useful, especially the text function, when they work, which they don't where I live. Likewise GPS is very useful but the number of ships that ran aground relying on GPS before selective availability was turned off was incredible. Likewise the number of trucks ending up on unsuitable roads, coaches losing control on hill descents they are not supposed to be on etc. My personal experience of GPS in France is that because of the number of new road sections being opened every year, the good ol GPS usually thinks I'm crossing fields, it doesn't even show my road on most GPS's, it's only been here for 400 or so years. A map is more relaible. Losing the ability to navigate with a piece of paper will be a big problem when one or more of these systems goes tits up in the future.
So, as I said, nothing wrong with technology except that a lot of doesn't work terribly well, human nature being what it is people choose to be blind the the limitations because "New" is the god of the moment.:monitor_punch:
 
aerofabrique said:
have you seen the current life spans of the F2 auto boxes?! :eek: even worse than the L322 at the moment. LR are doing a good job of keeping this under wraps at the minute as most are covered by warranties or are on HP packages etc.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/auto-gearbox-replacement-how-much-195395.html
Click to expand...


Have you seen the problems VW and Audi have been having with failed DSG boxes? Siemens injector failure? Oil pump failure? Cambelt tensioner\water pump failure? We are talking about issues that result in catastrophic engine failure costing £5000+ to put right. People don't run around slagging VAG even though there have been huge reliability problems over the last 6-7 years. It's not only only LR who are capable of making mistakes - there's no such thing as a perfect car. Yes there are very unreliable LR cars there are also plenty running around without problems. I only know two Freelander owners - neither have had any problems from new - none. You don't hear about the good ones.
 
Datatek said:
I have nothing against new technology, I even designed and produced some of it in my time. The point I was making about Apple is that it is stupid that people pay £600 for a device made in China that cost less the £50 to make when you can buy a tablet computer that will do all the things most people are likely to use for a good bit under £200, both will give you a new form of RSI if used a lot. Literally hundreds of people are getting lost trying to hill walk using iPhone built in GPS. To many people, image is more important than function, especially among the young so they pay their £600 for an iPad because it's an Apple product.

Mobile phones are very useful, especially the text function, when they work, which they don't where I live. Likewise GPS is very useful but the number of ships that ran aground relying on GPS before selective availability was turned off was incredible. Likewise the number of trucks ending up on unsuitable roads, coaches losing control on hill descents they are not supposed to be on etc. My personal experience of GPS in France is that because of the number of new road sections being opened every year, the good ol GPS usually thinks I'm crossing fields, it doesn't even show my road on most GPS's, it's only been here for 400 or so years. A map is more relaible. Losing the ability to navigate with a piece of paper will be a big problem when one or more of these systems goes t*** up in the future.
So, as I said, nothing wrong with technology except that a lot of doesn't work terribly well, human nature being what it is people choose to be blind the the limitations because "New" is the god of the moment.:monitor_punch:
Click to expand...

If people are willing to pay for it, they are boosting an economic sector and providing hundreds of jobs, both of which are undeniably good. There was of course the case of the Chinese boy who sold his kidney to purchase an iPad, which was rather tragic.
You are right that relying on technology is a risk for if it goes wrong. However for every truck with somebody sufficiently thick to not think about where they are going, there are millions of journeys made every day by car, plane and boat which are aided by GPS and are successful and without mishap. And this is possible because of the tireless effort put in by those whom update the maps; all we, the consumer, have to do is bother to plug it in and update it.
To pull this debate back to Land Rover :p I believe I'm right in saying that you are proud, caring for and rewarded by your P38, just as I am with mine; because we don't take them for granted, and we do put in the necessary work. Therefore so long as the more advanced, superior technology in the new RR is not taken for granted, and is just used, not abused, I believe it will happily serve its customer for many years to come :)
 
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