wattfield said:
It might, but will people who drive 20 odd year old cars be able to afford the maintenance?
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Plenty of people driving 20 year old P38s near twenty year L322s, and those were seen a unrepairable to the home mechanic when they came out, so I don't see this new Defender being any different.
wattfield said:
And will diesel be available, or affordable?
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That's more the thing. Will diesel be outlawed for private use altogether in the next decade?
 
Disco1BFG said:
Yep, and IMO, it is highly unlikely to last long enough for reliability as we term it with simpler vehicles to become an issue :rolleyes: I.E. Will it still function in 25 years time as my D1 does ?



Or not, as the case may be :(
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I personally don’t think it’s right to compare vehicles of the past to new modern vehicles. The world has moved on, regulations have moved on and you wouldn’t be able to build those old vehicles now due to safety and engine regs to name a few. For example you have to have ABS to sell a car in Europe which means you have to have an ECU.

Whether these vehicles are still going in 20yrs has more to do with the owners ability and willingness to keep them going and existence of aftermarket components than the base vehicle itself in my opinion.
 
That is the issue. Some of the complex BMWs, Audis and Mercs are disappearing fast and these were expensive. The more complex BWMs especially are getting very costly to fix. My 1992 Merc is the same value as a 2008 one, I'm assuming that has to do with complexity and repair bills. Mine has all component electronics and no canbus. I can't see a 2021 diesel Defender being worth costly repairs past 2025 when the push for no diesels really kicks in. If there an engine problem who would invest serious money when the road tax will be high and electric prices will have fallen. The same logic applies to the big German SUVs, I'm not singling out the Defender, these vehicles could be loosing £15K value per year and also looking very out of date. The Tesla cyber truck is running late, but when it finally hits the streets I can't see the new Defender as looking anything but very old. JLR had a golden opportunity to launch the full electric Defender first instead they have committed Jaguar and their SUV to be electric. I get that electric doesn't work cross country outback/Africa, but its clear now the big market for the new Defender is urban, look at the colour and wheel choices. Our daily driver is a 2002 Diesel Zafira, which we were going to replace 2 years ago, but looking at the de-carbonisation policy we decided to run it into the ground and go electric when it finally gives up the ghost. VW got this right, look at their share price over the past 6 months vs JLR.
 
On a separate note, this has probably been discussed somewhere on one of the many new defender threads, what about the defender wave? Do new defenders count? Should I wave when I drive my 90 past a new one?

I have actually driven past a few in my 90 and they didn't wave at me and I didn't wave at them. Maybe we should keep it that way
 
payydg said:
On a separate note, this has probably been discussed somewhere on one of the many new defender threads, what about the defender wave? Do new defenders count? Should I wave when I drive my 90 past a new one?

I have actually driven past a few in my 90 and they didn't wave at me and I didn't wave at them. Maybe we should keep it that way
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I suspect the driver of the new defender won't wave. Waving is just for the original defender I believe.
 
Veering more off topic but my mate sold his Volkswagen surfy van (Cornish Lamborghini) 'cos other VW owners kept waving at him in it.....:D
 
The old tratter was designed for and aimed at utility companies. There were lots of adverts for it in farming roles but lets be honest ere... You wouldn't spend all week trying to plough fields with a tratter when a real tractor can do it easier and betterer. A tratter was best at doing the jobs a tractor wasn't good at.

The world has moved on. Small cheap generators and battery powered tools replace the need for a pto. Hydraulic lifts and break down recovery versions of old trattters etc... They've been replaced with purpose built alternatives which are so much betterer. When the old tratter was new there weren't many purpose built vehicles so they could sell modified versions easily. These days the market has changed. There's now lots of competition in ever sector.

They sold to the army but only with a major discount. Lr stopped giving that when none army sales were good enough not to need the army sales.

The main reason why old tratters are still on the road is because owners like us choose to keep them going. Some of that is down to owning a piece of the brand. The rest down to cheap diy maintenance.

Lr have shifted over 45,000 new tratters. They aim the new models at the peeps who want to buy them. Sounds like its been quite a success. There's an electric version on the way. The design is sorted but not going into production yet. It will be very expensive so start saving now.

Its sad to see the old tratter go. No where near as sad as seeing Freelander production end. The world has moved on. Lr need to sell what new owners want. If they don't they will go bust and buyers will go to other lesser manufacturers.
 
An AA recovery driver of my acquaintance, who is also a Range Rover Classic and L322 owner, told me the AA have had to recover a few new Defenders due to problems with front subframe collapsing, he had heard the factory were recalling them to be put right.
 
It's on a honeymoon period at the moment, teething problems and recalls excepted. It'll get another little boost when the Bond film finally comes out and then it will be downhill as more reliability issues become apparent and warranties start running out. I like it as a (sport utility) vehicle but they have just made too complex a solution for a simple utility requirement
 
JimS said:
It's on a honeymoon period at the moment, teething problems and recalls excepted. It'll get another little boost when the Bond film finally comes out and then it will be downhill as more reliability issues become apparent and warranties start running out. I like it as a (sport utility) vehicle but they have just made too complex a solution for a simple utility requirement
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+1 - I think you've just summarised the main problems in society at the moment .... :)

Too complex indeed - there was that YT channel over the pond whose new deafener got a loom accidentally cut during a winch install = vehicle written off !!! :eek::eek::eek:

I'm probably too old to be in the demographic for modern marketing :D - certainly most of the adverts I see just make me laugh at the shallow carp - like Ford's "Bring on tomorrow" o_O ...... tomorrow is coming anyway Ford - nothing you can do to stop it :p:D
 
Disco1BFG said:
+1 - I think you've just summarised the main problems in society at the moment .... :)

Too complex indeed - there was that YT channel over the pond whose new deafener got a loom accidentally cut during a winch install = vehicle written off !!! :eek::eek::eek:

I'm probably too old to be in the demographic for modern marketing :D - certainly most of the adverts I see just make me laugh at the shallow carp - like Ford's "Bring on tomorrow" o_O ...... tomorrow is coming anyway Ford - nothing you can do to stop it :p:D
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Yes and problems with the ICE screen as well, and I think some people have had random limp home modes that have been difficult to trace
I think it is a thing of the moment that everything has to have a ridiculous level of technology thrown at it which is getting a bit bonkers. Most people just need(?) sounds and a sat nav when they're driving. I've got a new lease car on order that has 64 different ambient interior colour choices FFS.
 
Bluetoe said:
AA have had to recover a few new Defenders due to problems with front subframe collapsing, he had heard the factory were recalling them to be put right.
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That has got to be down to a manufacturing issue, rather than a design issue.
All manufacturers have used CAD software to load and stress test such components for decades, so it's very unlikely that there's a weakness in the design, as a over million hard driven miles would have shown any design issues.

So this leaves a production materials selection or assembly issue, which can be rectified pretty much straight away, although the effected vehicles already on the road will need a recall to rectify any issues found.
 
I do like the handsome, chunky looks of the new Defender but will I ever own one? Unlikely unless I win the lottery because by the time the price comes down to 'ordinary bloke' levels, as can already be seen with early L322 and Sport models most will be badly maintained, barely running, collections of blinking warning lights which are beyond economical repair and/or cost a fortune to keep on the road.
I can appreciate the New Defender for what it is, ie a more rugged looking Range Rover alternative but IMO it should never have inherited the name as it is a World away from the original, Defender is dead and should have been left to rest in peace.
The new Defender is probably impressively fast, quiet, comfortable, well equipped and (relatively) economical....Hang on..sounds like a Land Cruiser :eek: :D
 
Nodge68 said:
Plenty of people driving 20 year old P38s near twenty year L322s, and those were seen a unrepairable to the home mechanic when they came out, so I don't see this new Defender being any different.

I know a few who own or have owned older Range Rovers both L322 and P38 and all have had some degree of trouble with dashboard faults and other electrical gremlins, usually more irritating than critical though such as missing pixels and erroneous warning lights.
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Bluetoe said:
I do like the handsome, chunky looks of the new Defender but will I ever own one? Unlikely unless I win the lottery because by the time the price comes down to 'ordinary bloke' levels, as can already be seen with early L322 and Sport models most will be badly maintained, barely running, collections of blinking warning lights which are beyond economical repair and/or cost a fortune to keep on the road.
I can appreciate the New Defender for what it is, ie a more rugged looking Range Rover alternative but IMO it should never have inherited the name as it is a World away from the original, Defender is dead and should have been left to rest in peace.
The new Defender is probably impressively fast, quiet, comfortable, well equipped and (relatively) economical....Hang on..sounds like a Land Cruiser :eek: :D
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say no to one but i think it has a certain chavviness associated with it now unfortunately. The old one could be driven by builders or lords of the manor it had no pretention
 
As nice as it look's there's no way I'd have a new defender (can't afford one), they seem just too reliant on electronics which seems to go wrong on a regular basis if you follow powerful uk on you tube.

I really wish the Ford bronco was imported to uk, I'd have one of them in a flash, much cheaper (half the price) and more reliable no doubt..
 
potus said:
As nice as it look's there's no way I'd have a new defender (can't afford one), they seem just too reliant on electronics which seems to go wrong on a regular basis if you follow powerful uk on you tube.

I really wish the Ford bronco was imported to uk, I'd have one of them in a flash, much cheaper (half the price) and more reliable no doubt..
Click to expand...

Don't they have two types of new Bronco, one with a separate chassis and a soft roader type without. I quite like them to be fair.
 
Bluetoe said:
I do like the handsome, chunky looks of the new Defender but will I ever own one? Unlikely unless I win the lottery because by the time the price comes down to 'ordinary bloke' levels, as can already be seen with early L322 and Sport models most will be badly maintained, barely running, collections of blinking warning lights which are beyond economical repair and/or cost a fortune to keep on the road.
Click to expand...

Bluetoe said:
Defender for what it is, ie a more rugged looking Range Rover alternative but IMO it should never have inherited the name as it is a World away from the original, Defender is dead and should have been left to rest in peace.
Click to expand...
I'm of the same opinion to both posts.
 
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