Hi guys,

My freelander 2.0 TD4 (2002 model) judders and shakes when it gets to a certain point in the rev range; it doesnt seem to matter which gear i am in, but as soon as I hit that point I can feel juddering. Has anyone else experienced this who might be able to shed some light as to what is causing it?

thanks

hmmm...update on this, I've just read on another forum that this could be because the inner CV joints need replacing which is an expensive job apparently.

I believe it probably best just to replace the drive shafts if the CVs are gone. Easy job to do - 2 bolts on each front strut and then the shafts can be levered out. The driveshafts are quite expensive if you get genuine LR - but you do get a 2 year warranty I believe. There are some very cheap alternatives - but they may not last very long!

Are you sure it is the CVs though. It could be all sorts of things, but the thing that springs to mind on the TD4 is the main crankshaft pully (for the fan belt etc). It has a rubber damper built in that perishes and causes this type of vibration - I believe the advice is to see if there's a collection of fine metal particles (fairy dust?) around it - if need be shine a torch on it with the engine running - you may see the dust moving/glinting. Be careful of the moving belts. For a simple pulley, I believe they are rather expensive though.

i Thanks for the reply - I tested something and can rev the engine in neutral all the way to the red line without any violent juddering, so it seems to occur only when the landy is moving; so definitely something in the drive train thats causing it.

How's the VCU? Are the tyres the same make/ type all round with the newest on the rear?
These are common causes of such problems. If you are changed the drive shafts? Stay away from cheap Ebay shafts. These often cause more vibration than they solve. Use OE shafts for replacement purposes.

Pull the prop shaft off and see if it still happens. I refurbed the VCU on my K series and had a shudder afterwards at around 50mph. In my case turning the damper one hole fixed the issue but it could also be the VCU supports.
Have you done the one wheel up test and if so what were the results?

Edit, sorry just looked at the first post again and not sure is this an rpm issue or a speed issue? If rpm then the issue is in the engine and Grumpy is probably right about the crankshaft pulley. If speed then look at the drive train including VCU and supports, diff supports and drive shafts.

hey thanks, yes its RPM, and only when it reaches around 2500rpm. I was thinking, could it be effect of the EGR effectively starving the chambers of clean air? Should I go for one of those EGR blanking kits?

If it was the EGR, you'd have poor performance across the rev range and black smoke.
More likely to be the other way round and fuel starvation.
But check what the other's have said first before moving on to this.
Have you tried putting a bottle of injector cleaner through it?
Mike

Search for TD4 crank pulley in ebay. There's hundreds being sold, probably means something.

Or it could be a dodgy injector loom?

thanks, but in both of those cases why would it only have that affect when it is moving but specifically at around 2500 rpm?

re injector cleaner - i always use premium diesel which comes with additives to clean the injectors i believe.

A loom can break down at a particular engine speed, giving a resonance that can literally cause an open circuit in time with speed. I'm not going to say it's definitely the injector loom, but it's definitely worth checking. The Discovery TD5 engine is known to suffer from a loom issue, so I can't see why the TD4 engine won't, being that it is a 4 cylinder version of the TD5 engine anyway.

Edit. Ignore the last bit. The TD4 and TD5 are unrelated designs.
I guess they all can suffer from cheap wiring though.

All these suggestions are primarily coming from experience of seeing 100s of threads go through this forum - some of us don't even own TD4s. So the responses are to similar threads and what has fixed them.

You say it happens in any gear - so 2500 RPM in any gear is a big difference to the transmission - (I'd guess) anywhere from 10mph to 60mph. With such a big difference there, my thoughts turn to the engine which is more consistent to your symptoms - ie its always 2500rpm under load.

Shining a torch on the crank pulley and checking for sparkling dust almost always gives a positive answer if it is the pulley - it doesn't cost anything to test - so is the obvious thing to do first! If there is no dust it would indicate its not the problem - which is good because (for reasons I can't understand) they aren't cheap. If the pulley isn't at fault - expect it to be at some point in the future - they definitely do no last 'the life of the engine'.

The other possible issues become more difficult to diagnose. The injector loom sounds like a barmy idea because if wiring is at fault you would expect there to be a continuous problem. However, and going back to those 100s of threads - the loom is a known weak point with frequent failures. The replacement part is an improved part due to these known problems and the problems usually do not manifest themselves continually - they usually manifest themselves in wierd ways such as at 2500rpm under load! If this is the problem, then its a nice cheap and easy to install fix. Once again it another part that usually doe not last the life of the engine.

These are the 2 things I'd check engine related. I'm also of the opinion that its not EGR related - there are EGR related issues, but as said, if it were serious enough to "judder and shake" the car - I'd expect to see some evidence out of the exhaust and probably a MIL light. Without that evidence, I'd expect EGR related issues to be power drop at probably a slightly lower revs. I'd be more included to suspect the turbo than the EGR for your problems.

So, I would check the engine before moving to the transmission. Because its so variable in the speed, and your not indicating that there's any difference when turning, this leads me to think that its not related to the 4WD setup - however - while you are diagnosing these issues, it is a good time to do a "1 wheel up test" just to give yourself some peace of mind that the system is in decent health and you're not heading to a very large bill. Also check all your tyres are the same make/model/size and pumped to the same pressure.

I don't know a lot about dual mass flywheels except I know they can fail but not sure what the symptoms are.
Any thoughts?

Nodge68 said:

A loom can break down at a particular engine speed, giving a resonance that can literally cause an open circuit in time with speed. I'm not going to say it's definitely the injector loom, but it's definitely worth checking. The Discovery TD5 engine is known to suffer from a loom issue, so I can't see why the TD4 engine won't, being that it is a 4 cylinder version of the TD5 engine anyway.

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The TD4 shares little DNA with the TD5. The TD5 was developed from the L Series (which is why its a good engine!). They share common components such as pistons etc. It does use common rail injection though, so in that aspect it is more like the TD4 (or any Y2K) engine.

Edit : the TD4 was to be a 4 cyl version of the TD5 for Rovers and Land Rovers - but the BMW take over put one of their shonky units under the TD4 name. There was also to be a TD6 as well for RR - but that also was canned with the BMW take over. Luckily though the TD5 development was to far down the line to cancel.

Edit Edit : great to see a proper (and fantastic) Land Rover diesel back in JLR cars with the Ingenium.

Alibro said:

I don't know a lot about dual mass clutches except I know they can fail but not sure what the symptoms are.
Any thoughts?

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I faulty DMF normally manifests it's self at idle. Often with a vibration felt through the clutch pedal, just at biting point.