Mr Freedom · Feb 12, 2021

Hello
I have a 2009 SW 110, on factory steels with Michelin xzl 7.5 tyres, which I've always been very happy with. However, last year I started a market garden and through the winter I need to pull a trailer (typically full of manure) through a muddy field on a non-trivial slope. The Michelins are quite worn now but still at least 1cm of tread, and I cannot get in and out of the field now, haven't done so for weeks. I'm familiar with the skinny v fat tyre theory, the mud seems too thick for skinnies to cut through and find something to grip, I don't think new skinnies would fair much better. Would much wider tyres help significantly? Presumably I'd need new rims, I could switch seasonally, but don't want to spend a lot of money if its not going to make much difference... Thanks for any thoughts.

tottot · Feb 12, 2021

I have done an awful lot of muddy field driving since I had my first landy in 1973. Given that one is going to use an open block tread tyre, whether to use narrow or wide depends on the ground.
However if going wide to have any real effect you have to go very wide like Agri terra tyres to get floatation.
The idea with narrow types is to cut through the slimy surface to find grip below, to do this tyre has to have a tread that is good at clearing itself.
The simplest thing is to drop tire pressure down low, 18 to 15 psi is safe for most tyres, this spreads the tyre footprint [ length of tread on the ground ] and also allows it to flex more helping clear the treads. One thing I have noticed over the years is they tend to grip best at about the half worn stage but that my be just because of the ground around here. If only in use off road one could use tractor/dumper tread tires.
Rather than spend a lot on wheels and tyres which would make road driving less comfortable you could fit a torque bias diff or even a full locking diff. have a look at Ashcroft Transmissions for more info.

Mr Freedom · Feb 12, 2021

THanks totto, I'll try lowering the pressure, I guess that's what people do when off-roading (which I know nothing about)? Having just had a look, I have more like 0.5cm of tread at the back too, I'll get some new skinnies in time for next winter...

lightning · Feb 12, 2021

Your tyres are pretty much worn out. lf you fit new tyres of the same type you will likely see a big difference in their performance in mud.

Our Defender made it across a muddy field at a local show, where other vehicles and 4x4 cars floundered and got stuck.

lt was on the standard fit Grabber A/T's but they were fairly new.

Turboman · Feb 12, 2021

Mr Freedom said:
Hello
I have a 2009 SW 110, on factory steels with Michelin xzl 7.5 tyres, which I've always been very happy with. However, last year I started a market garden and through the winter I need to pull a trailer (typically full of manure) through a muddy field on a non-trivial slope. The Michelins are quite worn now but still at least 1cm of tread, and I cannot get in and out of the field now, haven't done so for weeks. I'm familiar with the skinny v fat tyre theory, the mud seems too thick for skinnies to cut through and find something to grip, I don't think new skinnies would fair much better. Would much wider tyres help significantly? Presumably I'd need new rims, I could switch seasonally, but don't want to spend a lot of money if its not going to make much difference... Thanks for any thoughts.

I doubt it, but it depends on soil type. On a really greasy clay, a Land Rover is going to struggle to pull a trailer in wet conditions, whatever tyres you have.
As above,^^^^^^, axle lockers may help a bit, but really, there are only two options for towing on really slippery ground. One is a tractor, even a 2wd tractor will find traction where a Land Rover won't.
The other option is just to wait until the ground dries up a bit, which should be soon.

tottot · Feb 12, 2021

Agree with Turboman, towing a trailer across muddy ground is hard going and if trailer has small wheels its like dragging an anchor.
The British Army experimented with PTO power driven axles on trailers but in the end it was a better bet to have 3 or 4 axle trucks with all wheel drive.

Turboman · Feb 12, 2021

tottot said:
Agree with Turboman, towing a trailer across muddy ground is hard going and if trailer has small wheels its like dragging an anchor.

Another option would be to bag up the muck, and put the bags in the back of the 110. That way, the weight would be helping the vehicle find grip, rather than making the anchor even heavier.

Andy J · Feb 12, 2021

Mr Freedom said:
Hello
I have a 2009 SW 110, on factory steels with Michelin xzl 7.5 tyres, which I've always been very happy with. However, last year I started a market garden and through the winter I need to pull a trailer (typically full of manure) through a muddy field on a non-trivial slope. The Michelins are quite worn now but still at least 1cm of tread, and I cannot get in and out of the field now, haven't done so for weeks. I'm familiar with the skinny v fat tyre theory, the mud seems too thick for skinnies to cut through and find something to grip, I don't think new skinnies would fair much better. Would much wider tyres help significantly? Presumably I'd need new rims, I could switch seasonally, but don't want to spend a lot of money if its not going to make much difference... Thanks for any thoughts.

Towing a trailer through any mud is like dragging an anchor, you might be better of spending some money and improving the access with some type of aggregate/ hardcore and then you can continue to run normal road type tyres and not have to go down the aggressive mud type tyre which will just continue to damage the entrance.

Cavey_P38 · Feb 12, 2021

Have towed lots of trailers about the farm in the mud, i have insa turbo special tracks on 265 x 75 x 16 but even they still struggle with a trailer on if the ground is like a bog, no trailer they go nearly anywhere, rarely even use low let alone diff lock. the advantage of a good off road tyre is that it the tread doesn't get completely bunged up with mud.

what tends to happen is the trailer becomes a sled with mud between wheel and trailer mud guard.. then you either get set or if the tyres keep clean you break something like stripping a drive flange or a half shaft.

Been there done that..

Think putting bags in back is your best option, less weight to drag and it is all over the wheels as @Turboman said.

And some new tyres of any flavour will help set of AT if a good mix of on /off road use.

I have a summer and winter set. and my 90 doesn't do much road mileage.

Get up early in the frost is what we do with land work on the farm when it is super wet..

Good luck

Turboman · Feb 12, 2021

Cavey_P38 said:
Have towed lots of trailers about the farm in the mud, i have insa turbo special tracks on 265 x 75 x 16 but even they still struggle with a trailer on if the ground is like a bog, no trailer they go nearly anywhere, rarely even use low let alone diff lock. the advantage of a good off road tyre is that it the tread doesn't get completely bunged up with mud.

what tends to happen is the trailer becomes a sled with mud between wheel and trailer mud guard.. then you either get set or if the tyres keep clean you break something like stripping a drive flange or a half shaft.

Been there done that..

Think putting bags in back is your best option, less weight to drag and it is all over the wheels as @Turboman said.

And some new tyres of any flavour will help set of AT if a good mix of on /off road use.

I have a summer and winter set. and my 90 doesn't do much road mileage.

Get up early in the frost is what we do with land work on the farm when it is super wet..

Good luck

I used to use Fedima Maxima 7.50R16 on my Ninety in the worst wet conditions, and it had a Detroit locker, and a Tru Trac LSD.
That would go anywhere but the steepest slopes.
I was never tempted to try trailers, though, just the vehicle on it's own.

flat · Feb 12, 2021

Mr Freedom said:
THanks totto, I'll try lowering the pressure, I guess that's what people do when off-roading (which I know nothing about)? Having just had a look, I have more like 0.5cm of tread at the back too, I'll get some new skinnies in time for next winter...

I have zxl and 0.5cm is hardly anything left, when new they have like an inch of tread depth

Scooby22 · Feb 12, 2021

Also ensure the trailer weight is biased to the front of the trailer, which will put weight on the real axle. Never load the trailer to take weight off the drawbar.

Colthebrummie · Feb 12, 2021

Sorry to be obvious but if you under inflate the tyres, don't forget to carry a portable compressor to pump em back up when needed

Col

tottot · Feb 12, 2021

Cavey_P38 said:
Have towed lots of trailers about the farm in the mud, i have insa turbo special tracks on 265 x 75 x 16 but even they still struggle with a trailer on if the ground is like a bog, no trailer they go nearly anywhere, rarely even use low let alone diff lock. the advantage of a good off road tyre is that it the tread doesn't get completely bunged up with mud.

I also use the Insa turbo special tracks.

Colthebrummie · Feb 12, 2021

Old tractors are cheap.

Col

tottot · Feb 12, 2021

Not any more, but OP may have more luck in France.

frog hopper · Feb 13, 2021

Something to think about, as others have said your tyres are off road racing slicks, so you can't expect too much from them, dropping the pressures would help a lot, but I have seen an otherwise std Landy go over impossible ground with snow chains fitted.

Brown · Feb 13, 2021

The other thing I've seen in the past is Land Rovers with cleated V tread tyres, like miniature tractor tyres. This seemed to be a popular choice in North Wales in the 1980s but I've not seen it much since. The sort of thing that is sold for dumper trucks. You even got a few people competing in off road events with them.

Andy J · Feb 13, 2021

Brown said:
The other thing I've seen in the past is Land Rovers with cleated V tread tyres, like miniature tractor tyres. This seemed to be a popular choice in North Wales in the 1980s but I've not seen it much since. The sort of thing that is sold for dumper trucks. You even got a few people competing in off road events with them.

That's all well but they aren't road legal on a Land Rover which means every time you drive in/out you would be changing wheels. One option would be to fit a winch to the front of the Land Rover and then install a permanent ground anchor and winch yourself in each time.

Brown · Feb 13, 2021

Andy J said:
That's all well but they aren't road legal on a Land Rover which means every time you drive in/out you would be changing wheels. One option would be to fit a winch to the front of the Land Rover and then install a permanent ground anchor and winch yourself in each time.

Well, I'm not suggesting it's a practical roadgoing option. They might be a tad noisy cruising down the M6. This was nearly 40 years ago and I think a number of the machines concerned would be registered as agricultural vehicles anyway.

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