AFS1

AFS1

Member
Hello everyone, looks like I have an impending HGF as there is new oil in the expansion tank, so plan to take the head off in the car and fit with an Land Rover genuine MLS version (assuming the liners are still above the head line). Have read that it is sensible to fit a modified oil rail at the same time, so as well as having the head off, plan to remove the sump as well (will also be able to clean out any old oil residue/crap that finds its way there - delaminated camshaft gasket etc.). Is there any problems with doing this in the car, other than the space. Is there any issue with the liners of having both the head off and removing the oil rail - which I assume are held in place with the oil rail somehow.
Besides changing the HG and oil rail, I suppose I'll change the cam belt as well (although it was changed 30k / 2 years ago), is there anything else that should be changed at the same time to avoid having to do it again or having to strip the engine to get to other components? Views appreciated.
Also, any views on the best utube videos of replacing HG or oil rails in the 1.8 k series Freelander 1 / 2005 :)
 
New head bolts if you are using the modified oil rail. Steel locating dowels for the head rather then the original blu-tack ones :)
How old is your water pump?
You could go the whole way and fit a PRT thermostat too.
Don't buy a new gasket until the head is off and you have measured the liner heights. Many people on here can recommend the best make once you have checked.
 
I no longer fit the MLS gasket to the K4 engine. I find it's far to fussy about the surface it's being fitted to. I only fit the latest Payne Elastopolymer (blue elasto). This works with the standard bolts just fine. A 2005 engine should already have the stronger oil rail fitted from the factory.
While the head is off, fit a new water pump flush the cooling system before pulling it all apart. It should already have a PRT fitted but if not, fit one.
 
I fitted the new oil rail when doing the HG on my 04 car but only because I had issues getting the head bolts out so was concerned the old one might be damaged. Otherwise I would have just bolted it back together as I figure the new style oil rail will probably only add another 10k if your lucky before the next HGF. My car does very low mileage so will probably be scrapped before then anyway. (Hopefully)
If you do swap the oil rail you have to have the head off anyway as the head bolts go through the block and screw into the oil rail.
If you want to go the whole hog, DMGRS have the new N series head gasket. Not sure it will make that much difference tho.
 
RE - you may already know this but, liners: once that head is off do not rotate the crankshaft. This will cause the liners to be dislodged and you will then need to rebuild the engine. You can use the old H bolts, penny type washers and a spacer tube and clamp the liners in place.
 
htr said:
RE - you may already know this but, liners: once that head is off do not rotate the crankshaft. This will cause the liners to be dislodged and you will then need to rebuild the engine. You can use the old H bolts, penny type washers and a spacer tube and clamp the liners in place.
Click to expand...
There's a suggestion I've never seen mentioned before. I'm sure there must be a really good reason why you shouldn't do it but I can't think what it is.
Unless it is that if the bolts are already stretched they can't stretch any more without breaking. And they need to be in stretch to properly hold the engine together.
Only throwing that out as a suggestion, anyone else have any thoughts on that?
But yes don't turn the engine over or you will need to reseat/reseal the liners.
 
Nodge68 said:
I no longer fit the MLS gasket to the K4 engine. I find it's far to fussy about the surface it's being fitted to. I only fit the latest Payne Elastopolymer (blue elasto). This works with the standard bolts just fine. A 2005 engine should already have the stronger oil rail fitted from the factory.
While the head is off, fit a new water pump flush the cooling system before pulling it all apart. It should already have a PRT fitted but if not, fit one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. I was advised to fill the cooling system with green antifreeze, but see somewhere else that only red should be used - views please? Also how do I tell if the engine does actually have the stronger oil rail? Please expand PRT P....R... Thermostat (?).

Have you come across or considered the: -
*Ultimate K Series Head Gasket Fix - N Series Gasket, High Tension Head Bolts and Revised Oil Rail. Equiv to ZUA000530
The revised engine used in the MG7 also had minor engine block and head changes, however the majority of the changes were brought about by the items included in this kit: -
Revisions to the items included:
  • Head Gasket: new 6 layer construction with revised fire-rings, a sealing surface coating and other minor changes.
  • Head Bolts: Tensile rating changed from 9.8 to 10.9, meaning more pressure applied to the sealing surfaces of the Head Gasket. Observe new tightening sequence below.
  • Lower Oil Rail: Additional webbing and thicker casting adds additional strength, meaning clamping load is maintained.
This kit fits all K Series applications - 1.1, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8. Use the drop-down menu to select if you have VVC or not (1.8 only).
Head bolt torque settings: 20Nm + 180 degrees + 180 degrees
 
Alibro said:
There's a suggestion I've never seen mentioned before. I'm sure there must be a really good reason why you shouldn't do it but I can't think what it is.
Unless it is that if the bolts are already stretched they can't stretch any more without breaking. And they need to be in stretch to properly hold the engine together.
Only throwing that out as a suggestion, anyone else have any thoughts on that?
But yes don't turn the engine over or you will need to reseat/reseal the liners.
Click to expand...
?
 
jamesmartin said:
?
Click to expand...
If your suggesting I was talking complete b0llocks James I can assure you it ain't the first time. :p
But the point is still true that I've been following MG and Freelander forums for a few years now and have never seen anyone suggest using washers so over stretched head bolts could be reused. I'd have thought for the sake of £20 it would make more sense to just replace them.
The other point is how do you know if the head bolts are good quality oem or some cheap sh1te likely to break, fitted when the head gasket was last changed?
 
htr said:
RE - you may already know this but, liners: once that head is off do not rotate the crankshaft. This will cause the liners to be dislodged and you will then need to rebuild the engine. You can use the old H bolts, penny type washers and a spacer tube and clamp the liners in place.
Click to expand...
Sorry htr I just reread your post and realised you were't talking about reusing the head bolts for rebuilding the engine. :oops:
However if you are replacing the oil rail you have nothing to screw the head bolts into. You just need to be careful.
 
Alibro said:
If your suggesting I was talking complete b0llocks James I can assure you it ain't the first time. :p
But the point is still true that I've been following MG and Freelander forums for a few years now and have never seen anyone suggest using washers so over stretched head bolts could be reused. I'd have thought for the sake of £20 it would make more sense to just replace them.
The other point is how do you know if the head bolts are good quality oem or some cheap sh1te likely to break, fitted when the head gasket was last changed?
Click to expand...
i would never make such a claim:),i couldnt quite see what you meant but youve just clarified it, ive used stretch bolts more than once but never once there length has increased,at that point they are scrap
 
There's actually no need to replace the head bolts if they are still in spec but it is wise to do so. However I've come across some cheap aftermarket bolts that have a lower clamping load (yield) than used genuine bolts. So you need to be careful on who supplies the new bolts.
Incidentally putting washers under the bolt head will make no difference to the bolts fitted yield strength. ;)
 
OK, thanks everyone. I think I now know the options for the impending HG work and that is to remove the head and see the levelling of the individual liners to each other and also against the deck itself. If these are all aligned, then a MLS Head Gasket is the best solution - which actual MLS version still remains in question (potentially the Ultimate K Series Head Gasket Fix - N Series Gasket, High Tension Head Bolts and Revised Oil Rail. Equiv to ZUA000530). However if there is any variation to the levelling of liners to each other or to the deck, then the Elastomer design (Payen BW750 etc) / Payen Elastopolymer (blue elasto) Head Gasket is the one to go for. This should not require a change to the oil rail, and will avoid removal of the sump, however new head bolts would still be a sensible option. So I'll wait till I get the head off to see which way to go.

This then leads to a secondary question, whether to skim the head or not? If the Payen HG is the chosen option, then the tolerances are a little more flexible, so a head skim might not be necessary, particularly as I do not (currently) appear to have an overheating issue. No knowing the engines history, won't know until it is dismantled whether the head gasket has ever been changed previously or not and therefore whether the head has every been skimmed before. Not sure I'll be able to tell if the head as previously been skimmed or not - is there any way of telling? With the head off, is it sensible or advisable to have the coolant/waterway modifications undertaken, which I assume means the waterways are enlarged or resurfaced, irrespective of whether I have the actual head skimmed or not?

Would appreciate views and thanks again.:)
 
You can check the head with a good quality straight edge and feeler gauges. As it hasn't overheated then you may well be fine.
 
Alibro said:
Sorry htr I just reread your post and realised you were't talking about reusing the head bolts for rebuilding the engine. :oops:
However if you are replacing the oil rail you have nothing to screw the head bolts into. You just need to be careful.
Click to expand...
Ah I see - you had me totally confused there. Yes use the old H bolts and a penny type washer either end of the 90mm? spacers to hold the liners in place.
That oil rail is secured in position on the bottom of the block by two small studs.
 
"With the head off, is it sensible or advisable to have the coolant/waterway modifications undertaken, which I assume means the waterways are enlarged or resurfaced, irrespective of whether I have the actual head skimmed or not?"

Re head water ways. I've found these to be partially obstructed and not cleaned up properly from manufacture. I use a Dremel and a 6mm TC bit to clear these out - I don't actually enlarge them beyond what the casting shows me - if you know what I mean.
 
All of these extra options are advisable if you plan on keeping the car for another 100k miles or more. In my case I'll be lucky to get 40k - 50k before the HG goes again but it'll probably have been sold or scrapped before then so I'm not too worried about it. My car only does 6k or so per year so I just cleaned it up as best as possible, ensured the head was flat and fitted an elastomer head gasket.
 
Oh and to answer your antifreeze question. Yes blue/ green Glycol based antifreeze is completely fine as long as it's not mixed with OAT antifreeze. The engine was designed before OAT became mandatory anyway;)
 
ok so did the head on the MG last year.
people recomend using copper heating pipe cut to length and the old head bolts to clamp the liners in place. easy cheap option if you need to move the crack when head is off.
would reccomend the extra tension bolts.
Also do the cam belt, water pump, cambelt tensioner. many horror stories of both wp and ct breaking after a rebuild and wreaking the engine.
The other reccomendation is to look at the water ways into the head, if they are burred like mine, get a dremmel type grinder and open them up, the early castings are terrible with loads of burrs not allowing water to flow properly
image.jpeg
 
Copper pipe is what I use along with some large washers and head bolts.
This will hold pairs of liners so the other 2 can be remove
20140610_211111.jpg

Or placing like this will hold all 4 liners so the engine can be turned safely.
20140703_124333.jpg
 
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