S

Smeeagain

New Member
Hi

Just joined and hoping someone can help me or point me in the right direction - not sure of this was the best page on the forum to post this but we have to start somewhere!

I plan, within the next two years, to start a small business in the Scottish Highlands, that will provide folk with half day and full day wildlife tours. Its been done before of course but not in the area that I plan.

Given the remote location and type of roads/terrain, I’m looking to get a robust vehicle and have always hankered after a Land Rover.

There will be no more than eight passengers at any given time and more likely six plus room for their kit.

The vehicle I purchase will be second hand .
So given that there is Discovery and Defender and long wheel base and short wheel base to name but a few etc etc – which vehicle do the good folks of the forum think I should focus my efforts on.

Once I have a consensus on that then I can look at the pros/cons of the shortlist and likely problems for each and so on, so to be clear I’m just trying to establish the best vehicle for my needs at this stage.

Let me know if I’ve missed any important info

Cheers

Smee
 
Hi there. Yes, A Land Rover will certainly fit the bill, but you will struggle to get one to fit the people required. The only vehicles from the factory which carried that many were the old 110 Station Wagons, which had bench seats (or four individual seats) in the load bed area - either three person or two person, a total of four or six in the boot coupled with three in the middle row and two or three in the front row i.e. 9, 10, 11 or 12 seaters.

BUT the third seat in the front row is all but unusable (the passenger must straddle the transmission tunnel), and frankly the bench seats are not comfortable. You might get away with two adults either side, but their knees will clash and there will be no storage.

A Discovery (and the latest Defender) has a maximum of seven seats: two in front, three in the middle and two in the boot, but again the 6+7 seats are smaller, and then there is no boot space.

If it were me, I'd look to get two vehicles: a Discovery 2 and a Defender (probably Crew Cab since they are easier to keep warm), and an additional driver. You'd have the ruggedness and relative simplicity of the two vehicles, a choice for the clients, plenty of storage space - and if you get into trouble on the moors, a built-in recovery service.
 
srtgray said:
Hi there. Yes, A Land Rover will certainly fit the bill, but you will struggle to get one to fit the people required. The only vehicles from the factory which carried that many were the old 110 Station Wagons, which had bench seats (or four individual seats) in the load bed area - either three person or two person, a total of four or six in the boot coupled with three in the middle row and two or three in the front row i.e. 9, 10, 11 or 12 seaters.

BUT the third seat in the front row is all but unusable (the passenger must straddle the transmission tunnel), and frankly the bench seats are not comfortable. You might get away with two adults either side, but their knees will clash and there will be no storage.

A Discovery (and the latest Defender) has a maximum of seven seats: two in front, three in the middle and two in the boot, but again the 6+7 seats are smaller, and then there is no boot space.

If it were me, I'd look to get two vehicles: a Discovery 2 and a Defender (probably Crew Cab since they are easier to keep warm), and an additional driver. You'd have the ruggedness and relative simplicity of the two vehicles, a choice for the clients, plenty of storage space - and if you get into trouble on the moors, a built-in recovery service.
Click to expand...

That's interesting thank you. A second driver is no problem as my wife would do that. I think though we would start small with one vehicle and work up from there, than rush out and buy two land rovers at once.

So looking at Discovery 2 and Defender which model/engine/wheelbase should I then be looking at so I can start to look at prices?

Smee
 
I think you need to know a bit more about Land Rovers. Only one vehicle comes in different wheelbases, the Defender, and the 90 won't be any good to you - it's essentially a two seater. Discovery 2 (which has been out of production since 2004, superseded by the more capable, more luxurious and MUCH more expensive D3 and D4) came in two engines, V8 petrol and TD5 diesel, I suggest the TD5! But be prepared to look around for a good one, they tend to rust in the chassis especially at the rear around the fuel tank. As for the Defender, again a TD5 (for compatibility and ease of maintenance), and look at a 110 crew cab (which has an open tray at the back) or a 110 Station Wagon, but without planning to use the rear seats. Alternatively look at models from the '90s: Discovery 1 with a 300Tdi (watch for body rust) and a matching engined Defender. If you are going to get one, get a 9-seat Defender first, then at least you can carry everyone (even if it is a squeeze with gear)

However, think seriously about getting two: yes, the cost is more, but one thing you should never do (and it sounds like you don't have much off-road experience) is travel alone. If your vehicle gets stuck, or you break down out on the moors, no recovery service will come and get you. With a second vehicle you can at least ferry everyone off the moors, or turn it int a recovery adventure. Whatever you do, I suggest spending some time learning to off-road safely, attend some courses from Land Rover and/or join a club and learn from them. Also, with two cars you still have a backup if (when) one of them breaks down.

If this is going to be a serious business, you can't afford to have your guests stranded anywhere.
 
Have you actually been up here to see/experience what your "opposition" are doing/using?

If not, you might find the actuality a lot more involved than you imagine.
:)
 
Beneagles said:
Have you actually been up here to see/experience what your "opposition" are doing/using?

If not, you might find the actuality a lot more involved than you imagine.
:)
Click to expand...
Aint Perthshire down there, not up here, from the Highlands:p:p
not even eilean siar or whatever the wannabe jocks call it now:confused:
 
To answer everyone

Yes I live in Hampshire (for now). I'm Scottish born and bred. I have a piece of land in the Highlands (not being anymore specific than that!) that I'm currently in the process of going through Planning Permission for.

I'm in Scotland on business every four weeks and holiday there every year too so lets not have anyone in Scotland thinking I'm a southern softy coming up to take over.

No I don't consider myself 'ready for this' but I didn't say I was, and everyone has to start somewhere.

I did say I was planning to do this 'within the next couple of years' so I consider a two year development timescale adequate for research etc. I think if I said I'm planning to go out and buy a land rover next week and start this then you could say I'm being an idiot and not ready but I think I'm being rather more sensible and cautious than I think you're giving me credit for.

So yes Ive been up there to see what they are doing/using. In fact there are 3 tour companies local to where I will be (but they have a different offering) and they use bog standard Ford minibuses. I don't plan to drive folk up and down mountains but I do want something more robust than a minibus.

I'm just looking for advice and am at the early stages - I only asked the specifics of the model in the pic as I'm not experienced enough to tell immediately from the small pic!

As I say we all have to start somewhere
 
srtgray said:
I think you need to know a bit more about Land Rovers. Only one vehicle comes in different wheelbases, the Defender, and the 90 won't be any good to you - it's essentially a two seater. Discovery 2 (which has been out of production since 2004, superseded by the more capable, more luxurious and MUCH more expensive D3 and D4) came in two engines, V8 petrol and TD5 diesel, I suggest the TD5! But be prepared to look around for a good one, they tend to rust in the chassis especially at the rear around the fuel tank. As for the Defender, again a TD5 (for compatibility and ease of maintenance), and look at a 110 crew cab (which has an open tray at the back) or a 110 Station Wagon, but without planning to use the rear seats. Alternatively look at models from the '90s: Discovery 1 with a 300Tdi (watch for body rust) and a matching engined Defender. If you are going to get one, get a 9-seat Defender first, then at least you can carry everyone (even if it is a squeeze with gear)

However, think seriously about getting two: yes, the cost is more, but one thing you should never do (and it sounds like you don't have much off-road experience) is travel alone. If your vehicle gets stuck, or you break down out on the moors, no recovery service will come and get you. With a second vehicle you can at least ferry everyone off the moors, or turn it int a recovery adventure. Whatever you do, I suggest spending some time learning to off-road safely, attend some courses from Land Rover and/or join a club and learn from them. Also, with two cars you still have a backup if (when) one of them breaks down.

If this is going to be a serious business, you can't afford to have your guests stranded anywhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - and particualry thank you for the rust advice.

I wont be alone in that the tours are within a planned radius of 20 miles where I will live and I know the local garage owner well enough to call out his tow truck if needed (there is strong enough mobile signal) but I do take your point. My wife would also be on hand to call out and ferry folk in a second vehicle.
And the opposition that was mentioned travel in minibuses - alone. All 3 of them - separate companies separate tours, separate locations. By alone I mean single vehicle. And at least two of them do go to parts where is no mobile signal which I think is crazy (and they don't have a satellite phone or radio of any kind)

But I'm not here to talk about their mistakes.

I will however give some thought to your point about another vehicle.

I do have some off road experience, however apologies if I misled anyone that I will be specifically driving off road - the trips I have in mind are road based albeit there are some (very) poor quality single tracks involved that I know very well and have never had an issue on them even in around 4-5 inches of snow in a (non land rover) four wheel drive vehicle shod with the correct tyres

And to your first point that I need to know more about Land Rovers - couldn't agree more - that's why Im here! - gotta start somewhere.
 
you should run it in freelander 1's... make it more exciting!

"oh will we get over this blade of grass.... HUZZAH WE MADE IT!!!"








oh hang on thats wolf in a 90
 
srtgray said:
I think you need to know a bit more about Land Rovers. Only one vehicle comes in different wheelbases, the Defender, and the 90 won't be any good to you - it's essentially a two seater. Discovery 2 (which has been out of production since 2004, superseded by the more capable, more luxurious and MUCH more expensive D3 and D4) came in two engines, V8 petrol and TD5 diesel, I suggest the TD5! But be prepared to look around for a good one, they tend to rust in the chassis especially at the rear around the fuel tank. As for the Defender, again a TD5 (for compatibility and ease of maintenance), and look at a 110 crew cab (which has an open tray at the back) or a 110 Station Wagon, but without planning to use the rear seats. Alternatively look at models from the '90s: Discovery 1 with a 300Tdi (watch for body rust) and a matching engined Defender. If you are going to get one, get a 9-seat Defender first, then at least you can carry everyone (even if it is a squeeze with gear)

However, think seriously about getting two: yes, the cost is more, but one thing you should never do (and it sounds like you don't have much off-road experience) is travel alone. If your vehicle gets stuck, or you break down out on the moors, no recovery service will come and get you. With a second vehicle you can at least ferry everyone off the moors, or turn it int a recovery adventure. Whatever you do, I suggest spending some time learning to off-road safely, attend some courses from Land Rover and/or join a club and learn from them. Also, with two cars you still have a backup if (when) one of them breaks down.

If this is going to be a serious business, you can't afford to have your guests stranded anywhere.
Click to expand...

And yes I'm happy to join a club and do courses - all part of the two year plan
 
Smeeagain said:
To answer everyone

Yes I live in Hampshire (for now). I'm Scottish born and bred. I have a piece of land in the Highlands (not being anymore specific than that!) that I'm currently in the process of going through Planning Permission for.

I'm in Scotland on business every four weeks and holiday there every year too so lets not have anyone in Scotland thinking I'm a southern softy coming up to take over.

No I don't consider myself 'ready for this' but I didn't say I was, and everyone has to start somewhere.

I did say I was planning to do this 'within the next couple of years' so I consider a two year development timescale adequate for research etc. I think if I said I'm planning to go out and buy a land rover next week and start this then you could say I'm being an idiot and not ready but I think I'm being rather more sensible and cautious than I think you're giving me credit for.

So yes Ive been up there to see what they are doing/using. In fact there are 3 tour companies local to where I will be (but they have a different offering) and they use bog standard Ford minibuses. I don't plan to drive folk up and down mountains but I do want something more robust than a minibus.

I'm just looking for advice and am at the early stages - I only asked the specifics of the model in the pic as I'm not experienced enough to tell immediately from the small pic!

As I say we all have to start somewhere
Click to expand...

Those are all fair comments, and I hope I didn't come over as putting you down! If it's a matter of just driving around and pointing things out, I'm not even sure a Land Rover would be the right vehicle. The interior is nothing as spacious as a Transit (they are more like a family car), and unless you really need the off-road capabilities it might be too much of a compromise. The african safaris often use an open-top 110 with a bench seat across the back, or even a 130 (extended wheelbase). I can't imagine an open-top vehicle being much use in the Scotland though.... If you are using the vehicle to get somewhere (say a hide for photography) that's a different matter.

Here's a completely off-base suggestion: if you are determined to use a Land Rover, why not try and find a Forward Control vehicle, either a 1960s Series 2a/b or a 1970s ex-military 101, and fit seating in the back?
 
Thanks again and no offence taken but I just wanted to be clear to everyone that whilst I'll happily admit I don't know necessarily what I'm getting into, I do have the credentials to do the research and already know the opposition.

No I'm not determined to sue a Land Rover a such - hence the research here - but I just thought it may have other uses given that Id be living somewhere reasonably remote and brutal in terms of exposure/weather etc (so not it cant be a open top!)
You've mentioned various vehicles - is there a site somewhere or a book that I can buy that shows/lists them all?
Smee
 
Smeeagain said:
You've mentioned various vehicles - is there a site somewhere or a book that I can buy that shows/lists them all?
Smee
Click to expand...

Hmm, tricky one that! If you can find a copy of James Taylor's "Land Rover" (his website) that would give you a grounding in most of the older styles. Pick up a copy of Land Rover Owner magazine, that usually has a buyer's guide in it that again will show you the various options available. Have a shufti through the model-specific areas on this forum, try and find threads about member's own vehicles - that will give you an idea about sizes, strengths, weaknesses and the sorts of jobs that need doing on them.
 
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